Mike's Oud Forums

Hello, New on the forum . need help.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-6-2010 at 08:16 PM

Hello all, I 've been learning oud for about 8 months. My musical pieces

Fairouz: sa'alouni el nass
habaytak tanseet el nom
Oum Kalthoum: Hobb ehh
leilat hobb
abd el -wahhab : ahwak

Many more like sit el 7abayeb, Tel3et ya ma7la nourha,zoroni .

I have a few questions.

1- I cant find the right kind of pick for me.I play with alot of trimono so i need a flexible fast material.

2-my oud doesn't sound like a oud. Many people on the internet play and the ouds sound deeper . My three last cords are no high.

what can i do. thx

ExtreamTarab - 5-6-2010 at 09:44 PM

Hey Ezz,

Welcome to the forums...and the oud world ;)

Well answering your question would be better done by people with more expertise in the forums but here is what I think. Finding the right pick is defiantly important and one might have to try many until finding the one, then make sure it's not lost :p I have been using a horn pick lately and find it to be responsive, the fact that you could sand it to the thickness you are most comfortable with was very helpful.

As for the sound of your oud, I would say the first thing to try is new strings...and a lower tuning makes the oud sound deeper usually so maybe you could try to find the tuning that suits your oud best.

Ibrahim

Aymara - 5-7-2010 at 12:38 AM

Hi Ezz ... welcome!
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
what can i do?


First you can tell us all we need to answer your question ;)

What kind of oud is it ... turkish, arabic, floating bridge, fixed bridge, made of which woods, scale length (length of the strings), what string brand, how old are the strings, what tuning do you use?

Manil - 5-7-2010 at 05:45 AM

Take a look here for picks, you can try one of those also: http://www.khalafoud.com/picks.htm

Many people love the horn pick, I tried it and found it too hard, but as my friend ExtremeTarab said you can send it and have the right thickness.

Enjoy,

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-7-2010 at 07:41 AM

Baisc arabic tunning F A D G C F 5 double strings but the first is single.

here are some pics maybe they can help you guys because i have no idea. The good thing is it came from egypt. with a 100$ shipping cost . so the total was 749$.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-7-2010 at 07:46 AM

pics arent uploading ....and im not sure if that is even the right tunning. i should ask my teacher but its 6 strings with the first single string. But my main problem is that the last 3 sound like a banjo or an Indian instrument.

thx guys.

Aymara - 5-7-2010 at 08:36 AM

Hi again!
Quote: Originally posted by Manil  
Many people love the horn pick, ...


I know a Greece oud player here in Germany, who has a very thin and flexible risha ... I wish I would have a similar one, but he couldn't remember where to get them.

Horn rishas definitly sound best, but I found out, that turkey feathers with a thin quill also sound very good ... but they are stiff. On the other hand, when the quill's top is filed perfectly round, even fast tremolos work fine. I bought a bunch of these feathers in a craft supplies shop.

I like these feathers ... they feal nice in my hand and they are the most traditional rishas besides eagle feathers, which I would never use because of protection of species.
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
with a 100$ shipping cost . so the total was 749$.


For that price it should be a good instrument. Interesting to know would be, which kinds of wood it was made of, because the wood choice has an important influence on sound charateristics. A rosewood body for example has a much warmer bass than walnut.
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
pics arent uploading ...


I bet they are too big ... have a look at the upload limit ... 1 MB and 850x1500 pixels.
Quote:
and im not sure if that is even the right tunning.


Are you shure it's FADGCF? That's more common on Iraqui ouds. The most common tuning seems to be CFADGC, which I use too. I myself don't like the FADGCF tuning, because it lacks bass and sounds too much like a flamenco guitar to my ears.
Quote:
But my main problem is that the last 3 sound like a banjo or an Indian instrument.


You mean the wound bass strings? Do you still use the strings the oud shipped with? If yes, change them ... factory strings are in most cases junk ;)

Most people seem to use LaBella or Pyramid strings, but here in the forums Daniel Mari and Pyramid lute strings have the best reputation as it seems.

fernandraynaud - 5-7-2010 at 01:39 PM

Ezz if you are using the factory strings, that's a mistake. Need new ones.

But also why did you tune it to the high tuning? If you tuned factory strings to a high tuning there is a good chance you are endangering the oud. The common Arabic tuning is

C FF AA DD gg cc

The high tuning adds ff and drops the C. If your thinnest strings are e.g. 0.025" thick they are NOT designed to be tuned to f, but to c below, because it's too much tension, and it would sound wrong. The right thickness nylon for tuning to f is around 0.020".

Look up string gauges with the Search button.

A good material for fast rishas is black acetal from Mideast Manufacturing, they resell it in packs of 10 on Amazon etc. Their horn stuff is more expensive but even better. You have to sand to the right shape and edges for your playing, again search on this forum!

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-7-2010 at 06:47 PM

Hello all my tunning is C FF AA DD gg cc like fernandraynaud said. they are factory strings but the oud came with extra strings from BAVLY EXPORT the discription on the back is

NOTE 1(2) - .026inch
NOTE 2(2)- .033inch
NOTE 3(2)- .025inch
NOTE 4(2)- .029inch
NOTE 5(2)- .033inch

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-7-2010 at 07:27 PM

i posted a video on the web

im testing the 3 last strings

this is the link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvAmCfMtoXY

fernandraynaud - 5-7-2010 at 08:12 PM

From what I hear you have the top 3 courses tuned g c f. That top string sounds like an f. At the end of your (very helpful) video clip I think you play the 3 courses open, and that top course is f.

So what is wrong is that you have tuned your oud to high tuning, and on top of that, the strings are likely not designed for it, and you could be damaging the oud. The bridge can come unglued, and the soundboard can deform.

Put on your extra BAVLY strings, and tune the 5 top courses (ascending) F A D g c, then add an extra bottom string. You can use the lowest string you have from your old set for now. You can order a single oud string on-line, or simply go to a guitar shop and buy a 0.041 inch to 0.043 inch Spanish (nylon) guitar low E string (not a Western steel string guitar string), that will work OK and even the fattest one should give you no more than about 3.5 Kg of tension, which is fine.

Bavly makes some not-so-high-end things for MidEast Manufacturing, so I imagine you might want to order a 6 set of better strings in the long run.




Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-7-2010 at 08:32 PM

hahahahhaha yeah the video was a last minute thing. But I don't know how to install the strings and im afraid of damaging it. Im also a beginner so i don't know how to tune the oud . My teacher usually does it.

Aymara - 5-7-2010 at 09:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  

Bavly makes some not-so-high-end things for MidEast Manufacturing, so I imagine you might want to order a 6 set of better strings in the long run.


That's exactly, what I would recommend ... I would maybe choose an 11-string LaBella set, which sounds great, is available nearly everywhere and has not that high tension as the Pyramid set.
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
But I don't know how to install the strings and im afraid of damaging it.


No need to worry, you have to learn it anyway ;)

As long as you don't tune a string too high, nothing bad will happen.

First you'll need a good tuner ... I use AP Tuner ... you just need a PC microphone. If you're interested, I can upload a configuration file, so that you can choose the oud tuning in the software instead of guitar, without the need to configure it yourself.

Regarding the stringing of the oud ... HERE and HERE and HERE are stringing guides. Just make photos of your bridge and pegs before you take off the old strings to compare later and I bet you'll get it going.

I bet with good strings, that have settled, you'll be happy with the sound of your oud.

fernandraynaud - 5-7-2010 at 09:55 PM

No, no, ezz your video was fine. But we need to confirm. The last 3 notes you play are the open top 3 courses? Yes? If so, your tuning goes up to f and you want it to go to c. Chris is right, even with illustrations, take pictures of your pegbox etc if you take pegs out be sure to number them! They are not interchangeable.

Good luck, not to worry, even some blind people can string an oud ;)


Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-8-2010 at 09:09 AM

thanks guys for the help. Im about to go to a music store here and i hope they have Pyramid strings or labella and when ill come back ill TRY to install them and ill let u guys no what happens. wish me luck.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-8-2010 at 09:18 AM

OR do you guys recommend i wait until i travel to Beirut, Lebanon on june 11th and have the strings replaced over there?Im very nervous because it is my best friend and i dont want to damage it.

Aymara - 5-8-2010 at 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
... i travel to Beirut, Lebanon on june 11th ...


Well ... I think Labella strings would be a good compromise ... not too hard to get, less tension than Pyramid strings and so better for beginners and they sound good.

So first check out how to get them ... if the local shop doesn't have them, order in an online shop.

When you have the strings, you can can decide, if you change the strings yourself or let it be done in Beirut.

But keep in mind that you have to learn it yourself! Maybe try only the deep C first?

fernandraynaud - 5-8-2010 at 02:21 PM

But he hasn't confirmed yet that the top course is tuned to f, which it is if he played the last 3 notes in his video clip on the 3 top courses open, and if so, he cannot do a partial job, he has to set it as normal, not high tuning.

Ezz, I am worried for your oud. Stop dancing around and please take a moment to answer my question. Look at your video. The last 3 or 4 notes you play, are they the open strings (not fingered) of your top 3 courses?

If yes, then your oud is tuned to high tuning, most likely using strings that are not designed for that, and if so you are stressing the oud. If that is the situation you should not wait to do something. If the high note is f, try to drop the whole tuning to standard so the top string is c. That's a start and will prevent davastation of the oud. What you do next is up to you.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-8-2010 at 03:12 PM

the last seconds of the video i do play the strings open . Yes they are factory and Yes the rest of the strings are tuned. My teacher is a music teacher in general. he knows how to play oud but doesnt know everything about it so if i am to explain it he won't understand.

I dont know what to do. If i take the strings out i wont be able to play. I understand that im supposed to learn it but right now im frightened for my oud.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-8-2010 at 08:16 PM

im going to order labella strings and install them with my teacher, maybe he knows more than i think he does.

thx alot guys.

fernandraynaud - 5-8-2010 at 10:02 PM


<<"the last seconds of the video i do play the strings open . Yes they are factory and Yes the rest of the strings are tuned. ">>

Dude! What do you mean the strings "are tuned", of course they are tuned .. to something! The question is are they tuned to what they should be tuned to.

Ok, so we know the top courses are tuned g, c, f.
That's a high tuning and it is why your oud sounds a bit like a ukulele.

Now the question is if the strings are meant for high tuning or not.
Most factory strings are not. So let's play it safe. Relax.

On an oud with a string length 24.25" that top nylon pair should be around 0.020" thick to be tuned to f.

If you have nylon strings around 0.024" for the high course, they should be tuned to c.

Why? Because if a 0.024" thick nylon string is stretched to sound f, it's pulled very tight. The other strings also, and that's a lot for the oud. So regardless of what you do next month, take the tension down now.

Can you just drop the strings as follows? The following is a cute trick that was developed in sandstorms when nobody could see or hear anything further away to tune to.

I'll leave out the traditional first step that involves a camel and a blanket, you don't need that part.

You start with the top course (pair) and lower its tuning (with the pegs) until the top course matches the one below it.

A D g c c


Repeat that on the second course now, so that the second course now matches the third.

A D g g c


Do that until 5 courses have been dropped as shown here.

Starting from
low A D g c f (f is hi course)
|
V
Ending up as
low E A D g c (c is hi course)

Then tune the lone bass string the same as the top course, that's a C, obviously two octaves lower. If your oud started out tuned high, you have dropped each course down "a fifth", it's now tuned standard.

The 5th course can be tuned to E or F as your teacher prefers. Does he have a white cane and dog? Does saliva drip down his chin when he plays? DOES he play? OK, Then he should be able to help some.

Get APtuner and install on your notebook, use it to check your tuning. If you have an iPhone get Pano Tuner for $1.

http://www.aptuner.com/cgi-bin/aptuner/apmain.html

Not to panic.




Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-9-2010 at 08:04 AM

ok so for the moment the only strings i can use are the extra ones that came with it. Im going to install them with my teacher and tune them to what u told me with program u sent me. Until i get the labella strings ill play with those. Thanks alot guys.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-9-2010 at 08:05 AM

Oh and the extra strings have only 2 pairs that are nylon . 0.026 and 0.033. is that good?

Aymara - 5-9-2010 at 10:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
Until i get the labella strings ill play with those.


To order LaBella strings should not last very long ... maybe a week?

So if I were you, I would tune the factory strings to CFFAAddggcc and learn with that, until the LaBellas arrive.

In the meantime check out, who might help you with restringing, because your teacher isn't a real oud teacher. Maybe you know a violin or an accoustic guitar player, who might be able to help?

BTW ... I attached the configuration files for AP Tuner, just for the case you need them. Just copy them to the AP Tuner directory, which is usually "c:\program files\ap tuner". Then the tuner will start with the preset for C2 F2 A2 D3 G3 C4.

Attachment: tuner_config.xml (1kB)
This file has been downloaded 194 times

Attachment: tuner_presets.xml (519B)
This file has been downloaded 204 times

Attachment: tuner_stretch.xml (37kB)
This file has been downloaded 177 times

Attachment: tuner_temperament.xml (4kB)
This file has been downloaded 175 times

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-9-2010 at 02:11 PM

thats strange. my teacher told me that the top single string is E.????????????????

danieletarab - 5-9-2010 at 04:02 PM

"E""?
Listen.. The most important thing that you have to do now, it's preserving your oud for damages!! Otherwise you will have to throw it away and it would be worse than waiting 1 or 2 weeks.

1) keep in mind that the typical, classic tuning is, from the thinest to the thicker cc \ gg \ dd \ aa \ gg \ c (or d).
THan you have the iraki tuning, which start on F and it's also very used, but you ABSOLUTELY need proper F strings to use it, and I would also say, a proper oud designed for F tuning.

TUning strings higher than they are supposed, it's EXTREMELY dangerous and the sound you get it's horrible.

Please, take off your strings, order LA BELLA and wait.

Be aware that there's also another tuning, which is the turkish one and it starts from D\ It's used only in turkish music as far as I know.
La Bella produces strings for C tuning, D tuning, and F tuning\ So, pay attention and get the right La Bella set, that as far as I remember is LA BELLA OU 80, or something like that (for the tuning in C).

If you have any problem, any other doubt, or troubles to put the strings don't hesitate to ask me or anybody else, but take care of your nice oud.

2) I don't understand the attitude of your teacher: a good teacher should teach only what he really knows\
Oud is not an instrument among others..
Where do you live? can't you get any oud teacher in your area, even only for a couple of lessons?

3) to put the string, if you don't find an oud player a classical ntlon guitar player may help..

Take care of you and of your oud..

daniele

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-9-2010 at 07:37 PM

I am currently installing the extra strings that came with the oud. and ill update on what happens.

fernandraynaud - 5-9-2010 at 08:58 PM

E? That's SCARY.

Ok, maybe offer him and that guide dog of his some sleeping pills to loosen them up? But then ask him to play a little in Saba. Has it occurred to you that maybe he doesn't know anything about the oud?

Believe the people here, we have no motive other than helping you and your oud.

Yes! Those two nylon courses are right for a C tuning

0.033" tunes to g (2nd course)
0.026" tunes to c (1st course)

you remove all the old strings and start stringing from the first course and I assume you have the diagrams that show which pegs go to which strings? The most common way I have seen is this, as seen from the top of pegbox

If you have some peg compound this is a good time to put a bit on the pegs.

6
5a. 5b
3b. 4b
3a. 4a
2b. 1b
2a. 1a
=======
Nut




Sazi - 5-9-2010 at 09:45 PM

Interesting, but I believe this is the most common way to attach the strings...

http://www.oudcafe.com/images/arabic%20stringpeg.jpg

Aymara - 5-9-2010 at 11:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
my teacher told me that the top single string is E.???


That makes me believe, that he is a guitar teacher and knows absolutely NOTHING about the oud !!!

There is a variation of the standard arabic tuning CFAdgc which leads to the 5th course (double string) being E (instead of F), so that the four inner courses are like on the guitar CEAdgc.

If you like you could try this tuning too, without any risks.

But as said before, every tuning that goes higher than the standard CFAdgc is a risk with standard oud strings.
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
I am currently installing the extra strings that came with the oud. and ill update on what happens.


Tune with the software we mentioned here and make shure you don't tune higher as said before ... lower is no problem, but higher might result in a damage, be it the strings or even the oud.

The thickest bass string will be shown as C2 in AP Tuner, the next F2, then A2, D3, G3 and the thinnest string as C4. You see ... the higher the number the higher the octave/note.

And you will notice, that it takes a few days until the strings have settled and stay in tune. The first two days the strings will detune very fast, especially the two naked nylon courses.
Quote: Originally posted by Sazi  
Interesting, but I believe this is the most common way to attach the strings...


Yes, but like I posted (links above) before, there are several different ways in which order to place the strings in the peg box.

But I think it's best to stay with the standard as long as one isn't experienced enough to understand, why it might be an advantage to do it different ;)

fernandraynaud - 5-10-2010 at 01:07 AM

Sazi,
Are you saying there's a difference??? take a look
Isn't what I diagrammed is exactly what's on the photo?

6
5a. 5b
3b. 4b
3a. 4a
2b. 1b
2a. 1a
=======
Nut

For the Arabic tuning

1 = cc Nylon 1st, highest, course, 1a is highest string
2 = gg Nylon
3 = DD Wound (some like plain nylon for 3rd course)
4 = AA Wound
5 = FF Wound (or some like EE)
6 = C Wound lowest single course (sometimes tuned to D)

:D no?

Sazi - 5-10-2010 at 02:09 AM

Haha, must be going blind in my old age:cool:

Thanks for pointing it out!

Actually I just re-checked what it was I thought I saw in your explanation... for some crazy reason I saw the letters as being the courses!!! wtf!?!:rolleyes:

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-10-2010 at 07:30 PM

THX , a lot of help. But i play a lot of calm songs form lets say oum kaltoum like hob eih abd ba3eed 3annak. So what is the best tuning for those kind of songs?

fernandraynaud - 5-10-2010 at 09:06 PM

Arabic.

My group is planning to take on a limited number of apprentices this year for coaching and exploration, in order to enhance their lives. This will offer exposure to many of the things you are interested in. There are two essential qualifications which applicants must meet, of which you seem to amply pass the first. As to the second, let me ask you, point blank, are you wealthy?

Aymara - 5-10-2010 at 11:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
So what is the best tuning for those kind of songs?


As Fernand said, start with the standard arabic tuning CFAdgc. That should work for most purposes and can be changed later, if needed.

We will see in which direction you will develop yourself.

For the beginning the above mentioned tuning should be fine ... I use it too, though I play Europian music ... it seems to be fine for nearly any kind of music.
Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  
..., are you wealthy?


Here it is again ... Fernand's wonderful humor :D

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-11-2010 at 06:59 PM

LOOOOOOOL

ameer - 5-12-2010 at 12:26 PM

One thing to note is that some of those older songs may be tuned down a half or wholestep. In that case you can either transpose it or retune your oud; tuning down doesn't heart and is in my opinion something every oud player should try at least once. To echo what Fernand said we blind people can change oud strings quite well sometimes which makes string experimenting addicting. You'll likely begin experimenting with them once you get comfortable.

Aymara - 5-13-2010 at 12:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ameer  
tuning down doesn't hurt and is in my opinion something every oud player should try at least once.


I read several times, that many ouds do sound much better, when not tuned to A = 440 Hz, but a bit lower.

BTW ... I read about a thesis, that tuning to A = 432 Hz would be ideal, because that's based on C = 128 Hz, which has something to do with sense of balance of the human ear. Hard to explain in English.

But I think this is a bit too mch for an early beginner?

ameer - 5-13-2010 at 03:48 AM

I won't say it's better or worse, only different.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-13-2010 at 06:39 PM

Hello all, well we installed the strings that came with the oud. They feel and sound much better but they need fixing every couple of hours so im still waiting for them to work . My tuning is FF,CC,GG,DD,AA,E .

what do u guys think?

ameer - 5-13-2010 at 07:02 PM

I see three possibilities:
1. The measurements on the strings are wrong: I'm sorry, I just can't see a .026 tuned to a high F.
2. Your oud's days are numbered: if you try to tune a string set designed for C tuning to F then something is likely to give.
3. You're using Turkish notation: as I recall Turkish notation shifts up a fourth so what we call C becomes F.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-13-2010 at 07:04 PM

ok but thats what my teacher plays with. u think i should tune it to an arabic tuning?

Aymara - 5-13-2010 at 11:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
My tuning is FF,CC,GG,DD,AA,E .


I think this tuning is way to high and it will very likely damage your oud ... I fear, it's just a matter of time.

If you want to use such a high tuning, you should have bought a turkish and not an arabic oud. You can tune a turkish oud to an arabic tuning, because it is lower, but you can't tune an arabic oud, which is designed for a low tuning, to a turkish or similar high tuning ... the resulting tension of the strings causes to much stress to the bridge and so to the soundboard too.

What was written on the package of the strings regarding the tuning they were designed for? Wasn't it CCGGDDAAFFC or CCGGDDAAGGC ???

As a compromise for you and your teacher I would recommend using CCGGDDAAEEC ... ask your teacher, if that's acceptable for him. You'll loose the high FF, but the rest is identical except getting a deep C ;)

PS: With the LaBella 12-string arabic set everything should work fine ... just use only one string of the deep FF course and tune it down to E and you have your desired tuning without any risks.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-16-2010 at 08:02 AM

ok guys thx ill ask him if he will change the tuning to CCGGDDAAEEC

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-18-2010 at 09:34 AM

well , my oud sounds horrible with the new strings. It doesn't even sound like your supposed to be playing it. It sounds like you use it for decoration. I dont know when i started playing i was so excited because i used to watch the oud players on tv and the internet and they sound so nice. But my oud sounds so lame. Im getting discouraged . My teacher says that the tuning FF,CC,GG,DD,AA,E is a ''new tuning'' and everyone uses it. But my oud sounds like crap.


Aymara - 5-18-2010 at 10:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
My teacher says that the tuning FF,CC,GG,DD,AA,E is a ''new tuning'' and everyone uses it.


That might be the new hype tuning in his town, but it is not a common internationally used tuning, as you can see HERE
Quote:
But my oud sounds like crap.


I only can repeat myself:
Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  

PS: With the LaBella 12-string arabic set everything should work fine ... just use only one string of the deep FF course and tune it down to E and you have your desired tuning without any risks.


So I would order and try the LaBellas. With these strings you loose the risk of damaging the oud because of too high string tension and you might win a much better sound.

But the later needs a bit more explanation.

The tuning FFAAddggccff, which the LaBella 12-string set is designed for, is mainly used on Iraqui floating bridge ouds, where this tuning sounds great.

On a "standard" arabic oud with fixed bridge it is likely, that the standard tuning CFFAAddggcc sound better.

So we have three factors, that influence the sound characteristics of an oud:

1. the oud's design and quality
2. the quality of the strings
3. the strings tuning

Conclusion: The LaBellas are good sounding strings, but it might be, that your teacher's tuning doesn't sound good on your oud even with good strings.

PS: I have the impression, that you are a fan of deep sounding arabic ouds ... and your tuning is too high to come close to this desired sound.

fernandraynaud - 5-18-2010 at 11:39 AM

Dear Ezz

I don't get it. You keep complaining about your oud, asking questions and then seemingly doing the opposite of what several people here are telling you, then coming back and complaining some more. It feels hopeless.

Simple solution: go to ostrie music supplies Web site and order one Arabic oud set PLUS the high ff "mumtaz" string pair. Set aside the fattest string and you have a 6 course set suitable to the "new" tuning your teacher likes.

http://ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm

Sazi - 5-18-2010 at 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
My teacher says that the tuning FF,CC,GG,DD,AA,E is a ''new tuning'' and everyone uses it.


That might be the new hype tuning in his town, but it is not a common internationally used tuning,


Just a thought, but maybe your teacher is from Sudan?

I don't have too much Sudanese oud music, but what I do have all uses the tuning you mention Ezz, but I have no idea what strings they use, though it's possible that it comes from using guitar strings.
Ali has been experimenting with a guitar E string for the bass F on a 57cm oud, and says it is a bit tight for playing on but sounds great open.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-19-2010 at 05:30 PM

I tell my teacher what you guys have been recommending but he goes on and tells me that this is the right way. I can't really tell him off because he is a friend of the family. Im a big fan of deep sounding arabic ouds. We changed the strings to better quality. He gave me the oud with dirty prints of it. scratches , chips. And he is playing me. He didn't even change the last 3 strings. THE ONES I WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT. Once i got to lebanon my father knows an old man who used to play oud on the streets and then was incited on a television show, maybe he can help me.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-19-2010 at 05:32 PM

Btw, my teacher is egyptian. he recently started playing oud, he is mostly a piano player and uses the piano to tune my oud. I try tuning my oud to the recommended tuning u guys gave me but it is extremely hard . I don't know if i should tune it to C or C#.

Aymara - 5-20-2010 at 12:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
Im a big fan of deep sounding arabic ouds.


Then stay away from high tunings like the one your teacher recommends or the Iraqui tuning the LaBella strings are designed for. CFAdgc or CEAdgc is the way to go, if you like a deep bass.
Quote:
... maybe he can help me.


It's definitely worth a try.
Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
he recently started playing oud, he is mostly a piano player and uses the piano to tune my oud.


It's no problem to tune an oud with a piano, but I think you should search for a teacher, who's main instrument is oud and who isn't an oud beginner himself. Learning from an oud beginner might lead to wrong techniques and it will be hard to get rid of them once you got used to them.
Quote:
I try tuning my oud to the recommended tuning u guys gave me but it is extremely hard.


Ok, fine tuning isn't easy in the beginning, but with the help of the AP-Tuner software I mentioned above, you should be able to tune to standard arabic tuning CFAdgc, which will be shown in AP-Tuner as C2F2A2D3G3C4.

Maybe do it together with your teacher.

Sazi - 5-20-2010 at 01:35 AM

Ezz, did you check this out? You can compare the pitches to yours.

http://www.arabinstruments.com/112730/Online-Oud-Tuner

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-20-2010 at 08:56 PM

the problem i had with tuning the oud was i get many letter with many number so i dont know which C should i have . But now thanks to you ill put C2F2A2D3G3C4.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 5-20-2010 at 08:57 PM

@sazi

yes my friend i tried it and it helps but doesn't solve my problem.

Aymara - 5-21-2010 at 03:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
But now thanks to you ill put C2F2A2D3G3C4.


... where C2 is the deep bass string and C4 the highest course (double string).

You'll notice, that it is hard to get the pointer exactly in the middle. But your tuning should be acceptable, if it is not more than + 5 or - 5 away from the center.

Tuning with the online tuner, that Sazi mentioned, is hard for early beginners, who usually doesn't yet have the trained ear needed to tune by ear, like your trainer does with the help of the piano.

But to get the desired bassy oud sound will require good strings, like Pyramid for example. The LaBella are not first choice, if you want to use the standard arabic tuning CFAdgc, because they are designed for FAdgcf.

Keep in mind: The best oud sounds horrible with cheap strings or a tuning, which is very different from the tuning, the strings were designed for.

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 6-4-2010 at 02:51 PM

Hello everyone. I finally tuned the oud to the original arabic tuning. Hamdellah (thank god) it sounds great. I just keep tuning it back because the strings are still new. Im getting the hang of tuning the oud too. Im really enjoying playing it now. It's really starting to feel like MY oud.

Thank you all for your great help.

Aymara - 6-4-2010 at 02:56 PM

Congratulations Ezz. Will you keep the standard arabic tuning or switch between both tunings?

Sazi - 6-4-2010 at 03:02 PM

:D Yet another successful oud story brought to you by Mike's Oud forum!:D


THANKS MIKE!!!:applause::bounce:

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 6-4-2010 at 03:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  
Congratulations Ezz. Will you keep the standard arabic tuning or switch between both tunings?


of course ill keep the standard arabic tuning , it sounds so much better. this is going so sound cheesy but it understands my broken heart, haha.

Sazi - 6-4-2010 at 05:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  
this is going so sound cheesy but it understands my broken heart.


Doesn't sound cheesy to me, I know exactly what you mean!
A good deep rich sounding oud is perfect for expressing feelings that can't really be expressed properly in words.

Aymara - 6-4-2010 at 11:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Ezz-the-oudplayer  

of course ill keep the standard arabic tuning , it sounds so much better.


You're not alone with this opinion. Many people say, that higher tunings like FADgcf sound like a Flamenco guitar ;)

Ezz-the-oudplayer - 6-5-2010 at 07:55 PM

one small problem is my pick (reesha) is making a small clicking noise when i play it. i;ve tried sanding it but no luck
any ideas?

thx

fernandraynaud - 6-5-2010 at 10:09 PM

Ezz, where is the click? You have to carefully analyze its origin and be able to say exactly what is striking what. You can be hitting the soundboard without realizing it. Some ouds have very little space between the strings and the soundboard, as a price for having a low action, and if you are playing hard, you might have to play over the soundhole. You can just be striking the strings wrong, and need to hold the oud face more vertical.

What kind of risha do you have? You might be clicking on the next course if you use too thick a risha. If you have the right shape and thickness, your wrist slaps down the stroke but only the risha tip cuts into the strings, the rest glides over them. Your risha should not be as thick as a credit card, the edges should probably be half that thickness. Some people like soft nylon and polypropylene, but most people seem to prefer a harder, snappier, material, and natural horn is really nice.

Take a look at this slow motion clip, it shows a tremolo, but the same stroke works for normal notes.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FernandRaynaud#p/u/4/v36fv7RorHI

Aymara - 6-6-2010 at 12:08 AM

Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  

What kind of risha do you have?


I would guess, it's one made of thin plastic, which produce the loudest clicking noise of all kinds of rishas.

Regarding the different sound of different kind of risha THIS and THAT thread from end of last year might be helpful.
Quote:
..., and natural horn is really nice.


Horn risha are the Mercedes of rishas, the plastic ones are the Hondas ;)

But there are also differences between horn rishas, cow horn sounds different to buffalo horn and the thickness also plays a role ... thin ones also have a clicking sound.

I also got nice experience with turkey wing feathers, but the top of the quill has to be filed perfectly round. But please, don't go hunting birds ... you can buy such feathers.