frankmoon - 9-8-2010 at 08:51 AM
I have problems with strings crossing in the pegbox, which causes some problems in tuning sometimes - strings jumping from just below to just above
the note when tuning, even with some graphite in the nut.
I think maybe if I strung the oud more like a guitar or cello, to avoid strings crossing in the tight space of the pegbox, this may help (for example,
top pegs starting near the fingerboard: C, EE, AA... bottom pegs starting from the end of the pegbox: DD, gg, cc... finishing back near the
fingerboard).
Has anyone here tried this, will the tension change damage or twist the neck at all?
Does anyone know the reason that oud stringing jumps across the pegbox so much? Is it to make even tension, or is it perhaps a historical development
where more and more strings were gradually added to smaller, ancient instruments with fewer strings? This would explain why the lowest bass note is
found on the peg furthest from the fingerboard.
fernandraynaud - 9-9-2010 at 12:15 AM
Yes, the "clickies" combined with the customary peg troubles make for some very irritating tunings. Especially on the A course, I find. And nothing
like clicking back and forth, trying to hopelessly zero in on that final touch-up, only to have the peg go into insane unwind (wheeee!) like an
overwound toy with a broken mechanism. The Turkish masters teach that the pegbox should rest against your leg or arm so you can push the peg in as you
tune, without stressing the neck. But the traditional stringing, as you can see on OudCafe
http://www.oudcafe.com/stringing_and_tuning.htm
is actually pretty sensible. It's easy to do, and thankfully easy to remember which peg goes to which string. When people e.g. send the top course to
the farthest pegs, like when they add the thinnest course as an afterthought, you realize that nylon/PVF is very elastic and makes tuning very hard if
it's given more length in the pegbox. So that's an example of a "good reason" for tradition. I also like the bass string running nicely out of the way
almost outside the pegbox.
Yes, the clickies would seem to stem in part from strings rubbing. Also the 3 dimensional layout contributes some rubbing of strings on
windings. But then again the bass string seems to click very well on its own! BTW, I've found that rosin on the string ends eliminates any tendency to
slip on the peg, or at the bridge loops, and that candle paraffin at the nut reduces the clickies better than graphite. Drowning the whole sorry
pegbox in graphite, hummus, vaseline or STP would be a tempting thought but for the darned pegs.
Some degree of crossing/rubbing seems inevitable with so many strings in such a narrow pegbox. Where the strings pass is in part determined by how you
wind them on the pegs. I've never mastered it, but I have seen (and envied) some very tidy pegboxes, where strings look very parallel, using
the standard stringing. This is apparently done by carefully planning where he hole will be (no harm in adding one), and how each string will wind,
but is beyond my residual "brain". I avoid the issue by firmly believing nothing will help much. If things were that fixable, we could become immortal
by eating tofu and jogging, or levitate by eating beans.
Since the tension on each string should be roughly similar, we can use 3.5 Kg as an average tension (times 11 is 38.5 Kg or 85 lbs total), I don't see
how another layout would change the "balance". Can you sketch what you have in mind?
Danielo - 9-9-2010 at 01:33 AM
Hi Frank,
Actually with the standard stringing it is possible to avoid completely string crossings, by placing carefully the windings on the pegs.
After seeing the perfectly ordered peg box on this beautiful Faruk Turunz oud :
I tried to do the same... and it works !
After this all the tuning problems you mentioned disappeared.
This said, I brought recently my oud to a luthier for sanding the fingerboard, and he restrung the oud exactly the way you suggest (as he's usually
building European lutes).
In practice, I did not feel any difference; it is neither better nor worse than the traditional arrangement....
I agree with Fernand, the overall tension is the same, so it should not cause problems...
Dan
fernandraynaud - 9-9-2010 at 03:57 AM
Daniel, you mean all the clicking of your wound strings disappeared???? Now explain something please. The Bamm string on none of my ouds is ever
contacting any other string or winding, yet they all click. The only one that hardly ever clicks has very deep nut grooves, and it's as if were due to
the fact the strings are tunneled and contact the sides and not just resting on the top of the nut. Of course grooving the nut that way is not
something you can do after it's already finished as a "top contact only" nut. Some of my other pegboxes are generally pretty clean and parallel, yet
the wound strings all click. How on earth did that change in your oud(s)? I can't see on your oud, are the grooves pretty deep?
Danielo - 9-9-2010 at 04:53 AM
No sorry Fernand I was unclear:
the clicking of the wound strings on the nut did not disappear (but the friction of one string onto another did).
About this particular problem, I asked my luthier to make me a new nut, in bone, with the shallowest groves that can do the job. Compared to the bone
nut of my Shehata, this nut is thicker, such that the curve is less step. Overall it makes a large contact area between the strings and the nut, but
a quite flat one.
Now there are no clicking sounds whatsoever during tuning (without graphite or anything else).
Dan
frankmoon - 9-24-2010 at 12:01 PM
Thankyou all for your intelligent and very helpful responses. I will certainly try stringing more like the faruk turunz oud.
I agree that the clicking of the strings is produced by the windings across the steep angle of the nut, but the rubbing of strings in the pegbox makes
it worse.
I have attached some rough sketches of the tuning method I was proposing. One of the advantages of this is that the string is never pushed against the
pegbox wall when tuning (when pushing in the peg as you say, fernand) because the 'live' end of the windings on the peg is always next to the peghead
end (see second picture attachment). I think this will help, but also allow a neater pegbox.
I'll let you all know how I get on with this...
Thanks,
frank
Sazi - 9-24-2010 at 03:51 PM
Hi Frank, just watch that you don't have too many windings that may push the peg out, the reason they are normally wound the other way is that it kind
of pulls the peg tighter into the pegbox, thus avoiding slipping pegs.
frankmoon - 10-8-2010 at 03:19 AM
Yes you're right, less windings is better.