Hi all. Oud #2 has begun. I have a question about the neck block I'd like your input on.
Here I have two directions for the grain.. Any what do you think of the top one where the grain runs horizontal? My first oud was made with the grain
running vertically.
SamirCanada - 3-20-2011 at 05:02 PM
I would think vertically would be better. bulerias1981 - 3-20-2011 at 05:33 PM
It seems to me that the horizontal orientation would be definitely stronger for the tail block. I'm not sure it is going to matter too much for the
neck block, but here is my reasoning:
I route out a channel through the neck block for a tongue-in-groove joint with the neck. I think the neck block would be much more likely to split on
me if the grain is running vertically.
For what it's worth. I'm only on oud number 7 right now, so others out here might be able to give a good reason for a different orientationjdowning - 5-3-2011 at 06:44 AM
There is another possible neck block grain arrangement - one where the grain runs vertically with the ribs glued to the end grain as shown in the
attached sketch.
This is the arrangement found on my old Egyptian oud and is often found on surviving European lutes (although I know of one 16th C lute where the
grain runs horizontally in the neck block - as it also does in the braces).
I have used this arrangement in my recent 'Old Oud - New Project' posting on this forum.
Note that this arrangement may not prevent splitting of the block if a dovetail joint is used (as has happened on my old Egyptian oud). This is less
of a problem for a lute where a large nail was often driven through the block to attach and clamp the neck when being glued in place.
With this arrangement the end grain of the block should be first be sealed with a glue 'size' (dilute hide glue) before gluing the ribs in place - to
ensure maximum joint strength. This, of course, assumes that hot hide glue is being used in constructing the instrument.
The 'side grain' at the neck joint also ensures maximum joint strength.
bulerias1981 - 5-16-2011 at 12:43 PM
Ok all. Newest update. Bowl, neck and pegbox completed. I'm waiting for the order of oriental spruce from Turkey to come in so I can begin the top.
Also bone blanks coming in for the rosette.
paulO - 5-16-2011 at 02:08 PM
Beautiful man. Such interesting grain patterns..wow.
Cheers..Paulbulerias1981 - 6-7-2011 at 10:18 AM
Hey everyone. More progress made. The top has been joined, shaped, thicknessed, Rose hole cut out, purfling installed and now I'm installing braces. I
first glued the bridge to the top. And proceeded with gluing the braces from the bottom, below the bridge. I installed the brace beneath the bridge,
then the three above that, ending next to the soundhole and while holding the wood and knocking on it to check its tone, I noticed that I was getting
a slight buzzing sound. I assume its one of the braces.
Any experience with this?Kelly - 6-7-2011 at 11:52 AM
Lovely work John can't wait for the finished oud.
Can you re clamp each bace in turn to see if buzzing persists or maybe check the tails of the bridge?bulerias1981 - 6-7-2011 at 09:06 PM
After careful consideration, the braces will be removed and reinstalled one by one, tap testing after each is joined. abusin - 6-8-2011 at 04:38 AM
beautifl work John, looking forward to the sound test bulerias1981 - 6-21-2011 at 08:20 AM
Ok folks. Drilled the holes in the bridge last night, after 16 hours of work, I installed the strings, and here it is. I still need to apply the
finish. It's early to provide judgement of the sound fully since these are old strings I put on for a test. Also, final adjustments for action haven't
been refined, as that will be the next thing that I do.
Here are some specs.
23x ribs with white strips between.
588mm scale length
367mm bowl width
495mm bowl length
38mm width at nut
54.5mm width at neck joint
Bone rosette based off of Jameel's design minus his name at center of course.
Ebony pegs, and Ebony fingerboard.
Walnut Nahat style bridge with bone cap.
Maple and walnut tile for binding.
Ararat66 - 6-21-2011 at 08:30 AM
Fantastic - and bone rosette not plastic - really good. I suppose now comes the sound
Leonbulerias1981 - 6-21-2011 at 08:39 AM
Once I apply the finish, a new set of strings, and a couple days of tuning, a video will follow MatthewW - 6-21-2011 at 09:01 AM
excellent work John, congratulations with #2 oud.
What do you consider the most challenging part of making this oud? What is the width of fingerboard at the nut? Looking forward to a sound
clip.regards,MWbulerias1981 - 6-21-2011 at 09:29 AM
Thanks Matthew,
The specs have been updated reflecing nut width.
Many aspects were challenging making #2. I ran into different problems than the first. I never made a bone rosette, so that was 2 weeks in the making,
I did a few things different, all of which I learned a lot from. bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:19 PM
Here it is folks. The final product. I'm very happy with it, and what a learning journey! Can't wait to start up #3!!!
bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:21 PM
bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:22 PM
bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:23 PM
bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:23 PM
bulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 12:24 PM
sabbassi - 7-5-2011 at 12:36 PM
What a beauty, very nice details and very clean oud, lovely
thank you for sharingbulerias1981 - 7-5-2011 at 07:09 PM
Thanks Sabbassibulerias1981 - 8-8-2011 at 10:11 PM
Decided to remove the extended fingerboard and install a more traditional beard. It so happens that this changed the tone a lot. In fact, it changed
in a very good way.
I've also been playing on this instrument a lot. I have New York Arabic Orchestra rehersals on Wednesdays. I have a two hour gig every Thursday night
at a Lebanese restaurant in NYC (Balade), and I play for several hours solid during the week. So I'm not sure if its from the modifcation, from a lot
of playing, or both.
I like the new look, and certainly love the new sound. Maybe others may prefer the previous extended fingerboard scheme?
This oud is still for sale by the way. Please contact me to try it if you're in the NY area.
bulerias1981 - 12-16-2011 at 12:31 PM
Some people wanted to hear the difference between the two ouds. Here is an attempt to give that example without having to travel to my house. Though I
feel you can never really get an accurate depiction of any musical instrument on the computer, maybe these two videos will yield some information
about the tone.
This is something of an experiment and so the taqaseem is similar between both videos/ouds.
Too bad the "noise suppression" is cutting off the sound below a threshold; it makes it impossible to hear how the notes fade out. Both have a good
bass but the midrange and trebles are much stronger on the B recording. Even the characteristic oud resonance at LA (A, Huseini) right above 2nd
course SOL is much stronger on the B oud. That oud sounds very very nice.
When obsessively tapping on my ouds and recording the spectrum I noticed the soundboard around the extended fingerboard area is a resonator for the
high midrange, and contributes to the Huseini resonance. Sukar never glues a long fingerboard onto the soundboard, it's inset into a cutout and rests
on the braces, so the soundboard is not muted.
I have an oud I wanted to glue a fingerboard on, as the action is high. I first thought of just gluing it onto the neck and onto the soundboard, and
then postponed it for this very reason. I was then thinking of scooping it out over the soundboard so it's not touching it, sort of how a violin
fingerboard overhangs the soundboard, but then it's not supported and prone to warping. So if the soundboard isn't already cut out for an extended
fingerboard, it's safest to keep it short, as you did with the traditional beard.
Beautiful ouds and playing, by the way. bulerias1981 - 12-17-2011 at 08:48 PM
Thanks fernandraynaud for taking the time to watch, anaylize and comment on the comparison.
I wouldn't come to the conclusion that Oud B is a better sounding oud. If it is, only a little bit. I still very much like Oud A and in some ways
enjoy playing it more.
Also, many great sounding ouds can be found with extended fingerboards. To add to this idea, I did recently hear an oud which was great and had a
fingboard inlayed into the face (extended removed) and the oud lost about 25% of its resonance and projection! But again, many Sukkar ouds have
inlayed fingboard into the face, and some can be very lovely sounding.fernandraynaud - 12-18-2011 at 06:47 PM
I still like B better. And do you mean that an oud that WAS great had a fingerboard extension added, inset into a cut out soundboard section, and lost
25% of its volume? Maybe it was designed for the way it was?
I have one oud with a fingerboard glued atop the soundboard, and it sounds like your A oud, it's got its good character, but doesn't ring as
strongly, especially that Husseini resonance is reduced, whereas my the inset-fingerboard ouds are louder and with better resonance. I think I can
tell just by tapping that the glued on fingerboard stiffens and mutes that section of the soundboard. sabbassi - 12-19-2011 at 03:24 AM
I can't say which one is better, they both sound very nice, congratulations
B is brighter and clearer in my opinion but does not make it better.
very good job nice ouds Buleriasspyros mesogeia - 12-19-2011 at 10:45 AM
Keep up the good work,I like more the sound of the second one,but both sound very nicemavrothis - 1-10-2012 at 02:00 PM
Hi,
Congratulations. I really enjoy your building and your playing.
