Marcus on Hijaz / Hijazkar Family

Quote: Originally posted by spartan

Practice came before the theory and more important is the voice, the singing.

Quote: Originally posted by spartan

I dont know if there is an exception about the 2nd upper tetrachord on Shehnaz maqam. It seems that A-Bb-C#-D is tempered.

I already had this kind of conversation about Shadd 'Araban v.s. Hijaz Kar. If we take the prescriptive theory we talk about a key change, if we take the descriptive theory we have two different maqamat -> http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9746#pid738...

Jono you started on "Arab Music Theory (...)" where I've, temporarily, stopped.
Please tell us if you notice strange stuffs written -> http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11201#pid76...

Quote:

Jono you started on "Arab Music Theory (...)" where I've, temporarily, stopped.Please tell us if you notice strange stuffs written -> http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11201#pid76... [/ rquote]

About the second link you quoted : I read Lloyd's work twice without understanding a few things. I'm writing down my remarks for the third reading and I would appreciate if you have some... I would feel less alone

Quote: Originally posted by Jono Oud N.Z

I have found that by reading from Arabic, Turkish and Persian sources, it becomes possible to view this music as one music, that eventually became two, then three similar but also differing musics.

That's a good point, I should read more about Turkish and Persian sources more than I do... I'll remind your sources above.

Also, Amine Beyhom wrote here -> http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11282#pid78...

"Apart from the critical review of modern theories and their integration in the course of the general history of the evolution of theories of Arab music, Volume 2 exhibit interval measurements from the current practice or recording early twentieth century to the present, and also includes appendices on Turkish music, Byzantine, Persian, and a continuation of the review of ancient Greek theories: if we do not understand these theories, we can not understand the modern theories of maqam, period."

and

"I remind you, however, that the understanding of modern theories depends, in my opinion, by the old theories: just as the modern practice, even when it deviates from accepted theories (ancient or modern) can not be understood if it is confronted with these theories and we're trying to understand why the divorce between the two."

Music of the East is a real travel through cultures and time ! OK, let's go and study... Oops ! later, I have to go out to buy bread... French culture...

I think the answer is in "A treatise on Arabic music chiefly from a word by Mikhâil Meshâkah of Damascus" :

p.183 ->

§ 6. On Transposition, or the performing of a tune on another than its natural scale.

Musicians are sometimes obliged to perform tunes on other than their proper key notes. For example, dûgâh and hejâz, whose proper key note is dûgâh, are usually performed on nawa, in order, by a higher pitch, to give more pleasure to the hearer. This change is sometimes necessary. As, when a double tune, which in more than one octave, is keyed on a high note. Shed-'arabân, for example, whose key note is dûgâh, requires the voice to ascend to the response to huseiny, which is extremely difficult for most performers, and even if accomplished, produces an unpleasant effect upon the hearer. Hence this tune is generally performed on yegâh or 'ösheirân."

p.185 ->

§1. Melodies keyed on Yegâh.

2. Shed-`arabân. This is in fact hejâz repeated in two octaves, to render the pitch easy for the singer. Its notes are 8, 8b, 8, 11, 10a, 8b, 8, 12, 12b, 12, 11, 10a, 8b, 8, 7, 5b, 5, 4, 3a, 2,1."

My own way :

Nawa (G), Hisâr (Ab), Nawa (G), Mâhûr (c), Nihuft (B), Hisâr (Ab), Nawa (G), Muhaiyar (d), Sumbuleh (eb), Muhaiyar (d), Mâhûr (c), Nihuft (B), Hisâr (Ab), Nawa (G), Jehârgâh (F), Kurdy (Eb), Dûgâh (D), Rest (C), Kuwesht (BB), `Ösheirân (AA), Yegâh (GG).

If I understand well, this means that Shed-`arabân has four hejâz tetrachord in two octave. The original key note was dûgâh, for the prescriptive theory at that time. This maqam was certainly named 'Araban, but in practice it seems it was systematically transposed... Q.E.D.

Here it is the descriptive theory !!!

By the way, thanks for the meaning of "Sedd", now it makes sense to me

Hi.
It is good to have people to be able to talk about these things with.

Here is a quote from the liner notes to 'Tanburi Isak' by Bezmara Ensemble, written by Walter Feldman:

'The name Sed-i Araban means "transposition of [the terkib] 'Araban''... The makam, which began to gain currency in the later eighteenth century, includes this movement and several others. 'Araban is a secondary mode (terkib) featuring an augmented second species on the note d (neva).
It never had the status of an independent mode (makam), but appeared with increasing frequency as a modulation during the eighteenth century. For a number of makams, such as Beyati-'Araban, Karcigar. 'Araban as part of the essential structure, as well as Beyati itself'.

Also Feldman compares Ancient Huzzam (a terkib on the third note of Hicaz) to the new Huzzam; 'Hizar Aga termed it "Huzzam-i Rumi," to distinguish it from his "Huzzam," a completely different makam (a compound of 'Araban and Segah) which is known today by that name'.

And:

'...17th century collection of a variant of Uzzal on d (neva),...
Despite the ubiquitousness of this modal phenomenon in the modern repertoire (called 'Araban), it is almost unknown in the notated 17th century corpus and is not described by Cantemir in his treatise.'.

Both from 'Music of the Ottoman Court', by Walter Feldman.
(An excellent book!)

I found one piece in 'Araban itself though.
Here it is.
It seems that Uzzal was the more common of the Hijaz modes in the 17th century, Hijaz existing as well though .

Here it is the Samai (Shadd 'Araban) I've worked with...

About George Abyad, he uses to play excerpt... This is why I prefer to see the whole piece. When we play his track number 6 "Shat Arabân", it's like the maqam does not duplicate at the octave... The whole score of the samai doesn't accredit this thesis. Here you "give water to my mill" with all these scores

When I've finished with track number 1, I'm about 10 seconds from the end I'll make further investigation about the Suznak piece at the beginning.

Quote: Originally posted by Jono Oud N.Z

The Shadaraban piece looks interesting, good to see one that doesn't need transposing. Do you know the composer? Is there a 6/8 part?

Hi.
I am very familiar with the Samai Shadaraban piece, we play it in our group often.
It is a very good piece.
I will check out the links too
I have been away for a few days but back now.