suz_i_dil - 8-11-2011 at 01:47 PM
Hi,
I have a nice made floater but I feel a change is needed to get something more iraki sounding type, particulary in trebles strings.
I've a friend, guitar luthier, who may make the work. But we don't have a clear idea of iraki bracing.
A common feature on iraki ouds seems to be 9 braces, with 2 braces behind the bridge.
Ali Al Ibrahim, on zeryab forum, says he puts the first brace 5 cm behind the bridge, his usual stringlength being 58.5cm.
So, going to mine oud, there is at all 7 braces. The 2 "missing" (regarding to iraki bracing) are in the area behind the bridge and behind the
extended fingerboard. The brace behind the bridge is 6.5 from it. Stringlength being 57 cm, it is like the measure of Ali Al Ibrahim.
I think to focus on this area behind the bridge for a real change of sound. Just a feeling, like this area have more importance in the change I await
than the area behind the extended fingerboard. Am I correct?
I'm wondering what can I await of a change of positioning of the brace behind the bridge:
* what is the importance of this area in the sound of the oud?
* what change in sound may I await if we put a second brace behind the bridge? By the way we don't know exactly where to put the second one.
* Where shall be the first brace behind the bridge? I mean Doesn't the position of braces shall be change depending on stringlength? Shall we take
off the 6.5 cm brace to glue a new one 5 cm behind the bridge?
Thanks for your help
Dr. Oud - 8-19-2011 at 08:54 AM
Changing the bracing is a major undertaking with no real guarantee it will improve the sound. I would advise you to experiment with some string gauges
to get the sound you are looking for. The bracing adds support to counter the string tension, and also determines the harmonic response by their
location. If your oud has a good balance of volume across the strings, the location of the braces are ok. If you want stronger treble tone, try
slightly larger treble strings before going to the effort of re-bracing.
The location of the braces is relative to the string length forward of the bridge. The brace (or braces) behind the bridge has more to do with the
length of the body than the string length. One brace behind is located halfway between the rear of the bridge and the tail block. I don't know about 2
rear braces, but I would guess it they would be equally spaced. Because the area behind the bridge is so small compare with the area forward, I doubt
it has a significant contribution to the sound, but rather is a structural element.
Remember that guitar bridges are located much higher in the face than ouds. In the guitar case, the area behind the bridge is a major sound producing
element, but not on an oud.
suz_i_dil - 8-20-2011 at 04:54 AM
Thank you Dr Oud for your advices in this issue.
I already made experiment with changing the strings which was a nice improvement in direction of the sound I'm looking for.
2nd work has been a french polish. The luthier I was talking about made it. At the beginning I felt a loss of sustain. Now it is settling and sustain
is going better. French polish has clearly improve the sound in the way I wish.
Now I'm going to experiment with bridge thickness, which seems to have an influence in trebles response.I heard some guitar luthier consider the
bridge as "the more important bracing of a guitar".
Experiments with bridge height were not good. Of course playability getted better because of action lowering but the oud seems to loss some volume as
the bridge height decrease.
It is difficult to judge if this loss of volume comes from the lowering of distance between strings and soundboard OR because strings tension also
seems to decrease while putting a lower bridge.
Maybe I'll made some more experiments with that.
But surely I'll go for:
1/ a thinner bridge (actual is 8mm thick)
2/lower its high but settling higher tension strings OR keep the same height (13mm at the bridge, strings 7mm ahead the main soundhole) and make a
work on extended fingerboard thickness to lower action in higher playing positions.
For bracing consideration I'll see after this work. But actual idea is I won't go for a work on it: soundboard is thin (<2mm) and there is a clear
risk to damage it while taking off the brace.
For place of 1st brace ahead the bridge and 1st rear I had some different opinions. Some says bridge should be half way between both, some put the 1st
ahead nearer than the 1st rear.
Both consider the size of the area between those 2 braces is important and that lowering the distance between those brace and the bridge improve
treble response but on the other side lower a kind of deepness of bass.
I think you're right saying rear area is not so influent in sound characteristic, but it is not a "dead" sounding zone. It may be of interest to
consider relation between rear area of the oud/ahead area and bridge position.
I'll keep update for resulting on work on action and bridge.
suz_i_dil - 8-20-2011 at 05:01 AM
By the way, for members who have an iraki floating bridge oud. May you tell me exemples of bridge height and string distance ahead the main
soundhole?
Thank you
suz_i_dil - 11-2-2011 at 09:06 AM
I'ld like to put an input on how turned this oud.
main idea was to improve trebles.
Thanks to Nazih Ghadban, Thabet Basry and Fadel advices, I didn't change anything to bracing and went for the following changes:
new bridge (rosewood, thinner than original, now it's 5mm width), french polish on the soundboard, and a new ebony fingerboard, glued on the old one,
to lower action in trebles (original fingerboard was cut in the soundboard).
It turned like I expected.
All works were made by Thomas Dauge, guitar luthier in Bordeaux, France. This man is really trustworthy for works on oud. I truely recommend him if
you look for a luthier in the area.
farid nada - 11-3-2011 at 02:47 AM
Hi Suz_i_dil
i think , the area behined the bridge is nearly dead. adding an extra brace may increase its death by more limiting its ability to vibrate.
the balance between trebels and basses is depending on the free areas between braces behind the bass and treble settings .
suz_i_dil - 11-5-2011 at 07:11 AM
Hi Farid Nada,
I understood it also as a dead area.
Main opinion is to attach importance to the distance between first brace ahead the bridge and first brace behind it.
But Ali Ibrahim told me you need to have enough space between the bridge and the back of the bowl. I think to remember he attached importance to it
for a matter of bass response.
Anyway, regarding thickness of the soundboard and size of soundholes it was too tricky to work on the bracing. Moreover a single brace would not
change so much the sound.
Thnaks for your input.
Regards
farid nada - 11-6-2011 at 04:38 PM
Hi suz_i_dil
to get balance of basses and trebles, Ali ibrahim sayes the fronte edge of the bridge must be on one third from that brace ahead. oud makers consider
the distance inbetween the ahead and behined braces as secre 
) . i think 7cm to
6cm in between the tow braces charactrises iraki sound.
however, it is a subject for experiments.
fernandraynaud - 11-6-2011 at 09:34 PM
For what it's worth, here is the bracing on a 617 mm scale fixed bridge Model 1 Sukar. Measurements are approximate to middle of brace, from the
neck/body junction. The bridge is 412 mm from neck-body junction, and 617 mm from the nut. One brace, the one marked "shaved concave" is in fact
carved out so that at the center of the pick-guard it's barely 1 mm high. Elsewhere, the bracing is about 17mm high. The soundboard itself seems most
thinned out under the pick-guard.
suz_i_dil - 11-8-2011 at 11:48 AM
Hi Farid Nada,
I exactly understood it as you said. I forgot the name of this area in arabic, but it seems to be a big issue in the tone characteristic of the
oud.
Thanks Fernand raynaud for thos informations.
Regards to both