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Can someone with expirence please tell me their thoughts on this oud?

james - 9-10-2013 at 12:57 AM

Can someone with expirence please tell me their thoughts on this oud: http://www.arabinstruments.com/112730/Professional-Egyptian-Oud-CAT...

Bodhi - 9-10-2013 at 01:36 AM

As lute says a full size Oud may be too large for you... check out Saadetin Sandi on Ebay they have very fine Turkish sized Ouds with great playability and sound! I think they have them well within your budget at any time. I would suspect they are better quality than the Oud you have posted.

james - 9-10-2013 at 02:07 AM

Thanks a lot for your professional advice, I am approx. 165cm in length and 55kg would this still be too big? because I prefer the deeper Arabic ouds such as Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese style.
Thanks heaps for the advice, is there any other suggestions in that field?

james - 9-10-2013 at 02:22 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARABIC-STYLE-OUD-Saadettin-SANDI-Bahadir-SA...

Would this still be big? sorry to bother you I am new to this field

james - 9-10-2013 at 03:58 AM

Perfect? http://www.arabinstruments.com/112730/Gawharet-El-Fan-Oud-1-1-1-1-1...
Though there is only one top string? how does this differ? is it quality/ babyish?

james - 9-10-2013 at 04:10 AM

okay thanks again!

james - 9-10-2013 at 04:33 AM

Thanks for the link! If you do come across something you think is suitable could you please just give me a nudge
I appreciate your help. Thank You.

james - 9-10-2013 at 04:46 AM

Okay, you've been very helpful to me I really appreciate it!

Brian Prunka - 9-10-2013 at 05:22 AM

15 years old and your height, I don't think there is any reason not to get a normal full-size oud. There are some ouds that are unusually large, which wouldn't be a great idea, but a normal Arabic oud should be fine. If you can find a Sukkar or other decent Syrian oud, these tend to be a bit smaller than the Egyptian ones.

Dr. Oud is selling a decent inexpensive oud on the forum:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=14235

Here is a Sukar for a good price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syrian-Oud-Lute-Professional-made-By-Ibrahi...

Since Sukar's factory was destroyed in the war, I recommend you just buy this one. You are unlikely to see another one at this price any time in the foreseeable future.

It's $170 more than the one you listed, but a much better deal, and should you end up wanting to sell it you will get your money back.

Brian Prunka - 9-10-2013 at 06:35 AM

You're right that arm length is more relevant than height, but in this case he's clearly big enough for a full-size Arabic oud.

Besides, in 6 months, he is likely to be a different height, with a different arm length. There are plenty of people his size that are playing normal ouds, I don't see any reason to restrict himself to short ouds, considering that it is difficult enough to find a decent normal-sized oud. In a way, you're right, but it is not a realistic or practical suggestion in my opinion.

Even if he had several thousand dollars to spend (which doesn't appear to be the case) and could commission an oud specific to his arm length, by the time it was built and shipped to him he most likely would have outgrown it.

Unless the OP is fairly certain that he has stopped growing, there's no reason to get a small oud at 15 years old. He's 5'5" . . . as long as he doesn't have disproportionately short arms and he doesn't get a particularly large oud, he'll be fine. The two ouds I posted are small enough. Farid wasn't very big and he played large ouds just fine.

Microber - 9-10-2013 at 06:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lute

I think it is the length of the person's arms that really matter.

The length of the person's arms but also the volume of the belly !

I'm not kidding.

Rbert

Brian Prunka - 9-10-2013 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lute

James when you need stings in the future, ask Brian Prunka. I recommend him.

Thanks for the endorsement!

Christian1095 - 9-10-2013 at 01:09 PM

The GeF ouds are OK student ouds... but I think they're a step down from Mr Sukar's work. Since I own two Sukar ouds, I'm a pretty big fan of thier sound... also, it was the first "real" ould I owned (I bought it here from SamirCanada) so take that for what it's worth... but that seems to be the best "low cost" option.

The Kalifa oud that Brian posted is also a good choice. Not sure if I'd buy one without playing it... but you can bet Richard has worked that one over and it has a really nice sound... so his would be the exception to the rule.

Otherwise it comes down to budget... for Under $1K, I would go with a Sukar oud or the Khalifa that's posted here... Once you break $1K, you get more options.... but unfortunately most low priced ouds are just trash... they look pretty and sound awful...

For strings, especially if you're in the US, there isn't any reason to look anywhere but with Brian... He ships really quickly and I've never had a problem with service or quality.

majnuunNavid - 9-10-2013 at 09:11 PM

I don't think you need to worry too much about how big it is, as long as you play with the right posture and don't play lazy, you are going to grow right into your Oud.

Everyone is different, but personally, I'm not much larger now than I was when I was 15. When I was 15, I was playing a full sized electric guitar, and full sized trombone. Estimate that you will have this Oud for about two or three years before you grow out of it musically and physically, by then you will know what type is best for you.

best of luck, :wavey:

james - 9-10-2013 at 10:47 PM

I appreciate everyones help on the forum. It makes me feel so welcome! I am really interested in the 1990 khalifa, though its only has one top string??
Thanks to ALL!

majnuunNavid - 9-10-2013 at 11:01 PM

From the pictures I saw and the youtube video Dr. Oud posted, this is an excellent value Oud. The one top string you mention, according to the pictures appears to be the low C string. This is standard, don't worry, an Oud from Dr. Oud aka Richard Hankey will have all the strings necessary. Here is the sound of the Oud on youtube, just be sure to find out how much the shipping will cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fp7qBtBAK0

james - 9-10-2013 at 11:06 PM

Thanks! I am no expert on this topic but as it quotes "a repaired broken neck". will this still last long as if It was new, do buy it? because it would be my first Oud and I really don't want it to be a disaster? it sounds great! but will it last long?
I trust that you will be honest in all your opinions thanks you!

james - 9-11-2013 at 12:18 AM

by The way on this Sukkar Oud: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syrian-Oud-Lute-Professional-made-By-Ibrahi... ....Is there marquetry to be put in the holes on the bowl, because those holes make it look plain?
Thanks

james - 9-11-2013 at 01:37 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syrian-Oud-Lute-12-Strings-w-Soft-case-Pick... Thoughts on this??

james - 9-11-2013 at 01:41 AM

or this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syrian-Oud-Lute-Oriental-Guitar-Floating-Br...

james - 9-11-2013 at 01:42 AM

unfortunately my only option is online because there are no oud stores in my area in Sydney!

james - 9-11-2013 at 01:47 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ali-Khalifeh-Sons-Hand-Made-Syrian-Oud-Arab...

james - 9-11-2013 at 02:05 AM

oh okay Thanks heaps! what would be my next alternative if Sukar is above budget ?

james - 9-11-2013 at 02:25 AM

okay lastly My main aim is to play to old Arabic music, will the Sukar be a good suit for it?

james - 9-11-2013 at 02:32 AM

okay thanks, so I should even stay away from the Egyptian Ouds on arabinstruments.com?

Brian Prunka - 9-11-2013 at 05:06 AM

Look, James, here are your apparent options:

A Sukar oud for around $580, which in my opinion is worth more like $700 to $900, and will give you the old Arabic sound.

Dr. Oud's oud, which is priced right at $500, maybe worth a little more with the new fingerboard he put on (by the way, a repaired neck is usually better than the original neck on an oud).

One of the GEF or other random Egyptian oud that's worth around $50 to $150, for which you'll pay around $300 or so.

A Sandi oud, which is a good value for the price, but will not give you the Arabic sound that you want.

The Sukar is by far the best value, and the only options you should really consider in my opinion are the Sukar or Dr. Oud's Khalifa oud.

Now shipping to Sydney is going to be quite expensive, so I can see how that will impact your choices.
I suggest you try to get in touch with Joe Tawadros and see if he has any suggestions closer to home.

Luttgutt - 9-11-2013 at 05:26 AM

Hi!

And sorry for coming late into this discussion...

But I strongly advise you to get a 58,5 cm oud.

More than that is too big for you (you are 165 cm high).

And even if you grow to be 190 cm, the 58,5 would still be good for you! (all turkish players use that size no matter how high they are :-))

I am 175 with longer arms than the usual. I used to use 60 cm. It was too big. It gave me problems with the shoulder.

Now I sold all my old ouds. Got new ones that are 58,5 all. And I can play 5 hours none stop with no problem and no pain.

Best of luck to you!

Christian1095 - 9-11-2013 at 08:14 AM

I got really lucky about 2 weeks ago and bought a Sukar oud for $370 USD... but it needed a bridge repair... so I ended up putting another $175 into it... so total cost for me was $550... I already have a Sukar oud, and have owned another one in the past... On the whole, I feel like I got a good deal.

I agree that the only real option would be either the Sukar or Richard's Khalifa.... Mostly because most Khalifa's you find on the net are fakes and I trust Richard (he's been on this board for years and has sold a lot of instruments... everything from the REALLY high end to ouds like the one above) If it was not any good, then he wouldn't offer it up here.

But also, since you're in Australia, I would also look up Joeseph Twandros and see if he has any thoughts...

Brian Prunka - 9-11-2013 at 11:29 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Lute

''A Sandi oud, which is a good value for the price, but will not give you the Arabic sound that you want''

How about putting Arabic strings on Sandi, would that improve it to sound a bit ''Arabic''?

Not in terms of tone quality (timbre)—the sound has more to do with the bracing and the top than whatever strings you use. It's possible that the Sandi would be acceptable, but I'm taking into account that he is buying an oud he can't play first, in which case I think that Sukar is the most reliable oud choice in the medium price range.
Khalifa's are all over the place, sometimes they sound pretty decent; It seems like Dr. Oud got a good one and I would trust his setup.

james - 9-11-2013 at 02:28 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. Could anyone tell me if is fake because I'm unsure: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/revesby/other-musical-instruments/ou...

Brian Prunka - 9-11-2013 at 03:25 PM

Looks authentic.

james - 9-11-2013 at 07:45 PM

do you recomend buying it? because its in my area
thanks

Brian Prunka - 9-11-2013 at 08:02 PM

Yes, at least go try it out. If possible get an experienced oud player to come with you to look at it. If there don't appear to be any problems with it (cracks in the face, bridge lifting off/gaps between bridge and face, warped neck, cracked ribs, etc) then it's a decent price. You could try to negotiate down a bit, but it's a reasonable price.

If there are any problems, then it might still be worth buying (for less) and having repaired, but maybe not in your case since you are new to the oud.

james - 9-11-2013 at 10:03 PM

well she said $500 AUS is the lowest hey can go but I will go have a look at it this weekend

Thanks for the tips

Brian Prunka - 9-12-2013 at 04:19 AM

$500 is a very good price. I saw you sent me a u2u, but I can't respond to u2us, so please send me a message through my oudstrings website.

james - 9-12-2013 at 04:22 AM

Hi, sorry to bother but before I go have a look at this Sukar in my area could you just give me an idea of what to look out for if its fake/bad quality? and how can I tell if strings need changing?
James

Christian1095 - 9-12-2013 at 08:18 AM

I pretty much always put new strings on a new instrument... I would recommend the Aquilla Arabic (light tension) set from Brian's shop... I have two Sukar ouds right now and that's what I've put on them. Or Pyramid Lute Strings are pretty good too (though pricey)

$500 AUS is a really good price for the oud ($460 USD) Personally, I think it's worth about $800 AUS... And the chances of you finding a better oud for equal or less price and having is shipped to the Down Under are pretty slim....

Like the above, just look for signs of the instrument being abused... tap around the outside of the ouds face and see if you hear a rattle (ie, a lose or broken brace)

Jody Stecher - 9-12-2013 at 08:34 AM

Yes, and also note that the advert for the oud claims that the instrument is in "prefect" condition, not *perfect* condition. This is likely a typo, but might be a sly deceit. 40 years ago I knew an unlicensed acupuncturist whose business card claimed she practiced "acupunture". This was her legal "out". There was no law against practicing "acupunture" ( a nonexistent thing) without a license. Similarly if this Sukar oud is faulty, the seller can refuse a refund on the basis that no claim of "perfect" condition was made, only of "prefect" condition!!

Quote: Originally posted by Christian1095

I pretty much always put new strings on a new instrument... I would recommend the Aquilla Arabic (light tension) set from Brian's shop... I have two Sukar ouds right now and that's what I've put on them. Or Pyramid Lute Strings are pretty good too (though pricey)

$500 AUS is a really good price for the oud ($460 USD) Personally, I think it's worth about $800 AUS... And the chances of you finding a better oud for equal or less price and having is shipped to the Down Under are pretty slim....

Like the above, just look for signs of the instrument being abused... tap around the outside of the ouds face and see if you hear a rattle (ie, a lose or broken brace)

james - 9-12-2013 at 07:49 PM

what can I do to prevent this "perfect" error? how can I find out if its a typo or its faulty?
.James.

Jody Stecher - 9-12-2013 at 08:42 PM

Quote: Originally posted by james

what can I do to prevent this "perfect" error? how can I find out if its a typo or its faulty?
.James.

1) try out the oud. Unless the seller is an oud expert any fault visible to him will be visible to you

2) ask the seller if prefect was a typo or if he meant something else.

3) don't worry about it.

4) when you see the oud if you love it buy it. If you don't, wait for another to come along. You don't have to buy your first oud this week. Wait for something you really like.

BaniYazid - 9-12-2013 at 09:46 PM

Hello.

I also have a Sukar oud, model 1. Aquilla light and super light strings work good with it.
If you can record the sound of the oud and upload the file, you might have some feedback. Check carefully the neck/bowl junction and the bridge.

Good luck!

majnuunNavid - 9-12-2013 at 10:26 PM

Good luck with the Sukar. It is fortunate you have found one so close to home.

When you look at it, hold it up so that the soundboard is level with your eyes, and you'll be able to see if the soundboard is warped. Soundboards sometimes naturally warp over time, specially around the bridge, so don't worry if this is the case. But if it has warped too much, the action will be noticeably high, and there may be cracks in the soundboard. This Oud appears okay at a glance, but the warping can tell you how the Oud is aging...
If it is warped a little, but doesn't have any problems, that means the bracing under the soundboard is doing their job. You can always try negotiating the price down at least. My own has a very small crack in the spruce soundboard, but it actually sounds better for it.

Good luck!

james - 9-13-2013 at 06:41 PM

Thanks a lot for all the advice and opinions much appreciated!

james - 9-13-2013 at 09:17 PM

Just bought the Sukar for $400aus, btw were can i get a pick/risha from?

majnuunNavid - 9-13-2013 at 10:00 PM

Hey good job negotiating them down!
oudstrings.com has excellent options for picks. But until you receive those you're going to have to make your own. Look for dense bendable plastic, yogurt/ice cream tubs are too light and flimsy, thick cable ties from hardware store are great but hell to sand down to get the right shape, because you can't do anything with those grooves in them.

james - 9-13-2013 at 10:18 PM

would a the back of a plastic spoon be good??

majnuunNavid - 9-13-2013 at 10:32 PM

As far as I know, plastic spoons are too stiff, but then I've never seen a plastic spoon from australia. It also needs to be smooth.

james - 9-13-2013 at 10:36 PM

I cut out an ID card in the shape of a rishi and it seems to be working fine for now

james - 9-13-2013 at 10:41 PM

does anyone know a good website to get started on the basics of the oud?

FilipHolm - 9-14-2013 at 02:37 AM

This one is pretty good :p

As a fellow beginner (only played for over a year), the one advice I can give you is: feeling is the key.
I tried for a long time to study technically how people were playing and trying really hard to get that ethnic sound that the instrument traditionally have.
But it wasn't until I said "screw it", closed my eyes, and simply played from my soul and with feeling that I suddenly were able to do things I had never done before.

(Of course it's essential to learn some technical basics first)

Good luck

Bodhi - 9-14-2013 at 09:28 AM

James, try checking the FAQ and the links page on this site:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6809

http://www.mikeouds.com/links.html

this site is especially useful (at least it was for me):
http://www.maqamworld.com

congratulations on your first Oud
regards
Bodhi

james - 9-14-2013 at 09:26 PM

Thanks alot!

james - 9-14-2013 at 10:58 PM

what can use to clean smudges off the unfinished top of the oud?

Dr. Oud - 9-15-2013 at 03:35 AM

clean the face with denatured alcohol on a cloth, nothing abrasive and never never never sand the face or scrape it.

james - 9-15-2013 at 03:44 AM

okay thanks heaps!

FilipHolm - 9-15-2013 at 04:30 AM

Waiting for the pictures/videos!

Congratulations on your new oud!

Dr. Oud - 9-16-2013 at 07:52 AM

After cleaning you can seal the unfinished wood with egg white, strained to remove the yolk and thick albumen. Brushed it on liberally and wipe the excess off with a clean cloth or paper towel.

james - 9-16-2013 at 11:24 PM

thanks for the suggestion!
I am unsure how to upload photos though :/

Christian1095 - 9-17-2013 at 11:41 AM

Congrats!

Dr Oud, I didn't know that about egg white... I'm afraid my dogs would eat my oud if I tried it though

james - 10-19-2013 at 08:25 PM

the oud is very comfortable thanks for all previous advice

james - 10-19-2013 at 08:26 PM

the oud is very comfortable thanks for all previous advice!