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My wife runs when she hears the oud...

Eric Stern Music - 12-10-2013 at 12:42 PM

I saw a movie some years ago. It took place in Lebanon, and in one scene the father took his oud down to play and his wife got a misty look in her eyes and said something like, "I love it when you play your oud!" I thought that this is how it would be one day in my house. Instead my wife says she can't stand the sound and is tired of hearing it all of the time (And I'm a decent player by the way). "Don't you think it's a sweet sound though?" I ask and she replies, "If you hear something over and over after a while it just sounds like noise." The funniest part is that I am an accordionist for a living. But I only play the accordion outside of the house.

Lysander - 12-10-2013 at 12:59 PM

Haha! I love that story. My wife is the opposite, she loves it when I play the oud. Probably because it reminds her of being back home in Turkey.

When I first started it she did say, "you play the same thing all the time" but that was because I was only playing hijaz. Now my maqams have expanded I no longer hear that complaint.

majnuunNavid - 12-10-2013 at 01:47 PM

That is really funny. I have found that everybody who has overheard me practicing or playing doesn't seem to find it annoying.

In my house, playing the Oud gets a free pass, however playing my Mandolin is sometimes a problem. I have to choose the time wisely. That little thing cuts through everything...

spyblaster - 12-10-2013 at 03:13 PM

why don't u use a silent oud with an amp and headphones? it will totally cost about 800$ but will definitely solve your problem. just in case u love her and dont wanna have problem with her.

its very strange though, here in Iran being an instrumentalist make u sexy for girls!

Eric Stern Music - 12-10-2013 at 03:24 PM

Oh, it's ok I just wait until she goes to bed and then I play until 1 AM. But maybe if I threaten to play more during the day she'll give me $800 for the silent one!

DavidJE - 12-10-2013 at 05:03 PM

LOL, this is great topic.

I've only been playing the oud for 8 months. I have played an instrument before, so reading music wasn't a problem for me, nor was the theory really, but of course I'm still a total beginner. I generally play for 2 hours a day, if not significantly more.

For the first couple of months my wife also told me that everything I played sounded the same. Not only was I only playing compositions in Rast, but...due to my having just started, I'm sure it all sounded equally crappy. When I got a bit better and my teacher gave me nice compositions in different makam-s, my wife started to notice differences. But even still, when you're playing for hours every day, the people you are living with are going to "tune it out"...not pay close attention. And then, I think it will always sound the same...it's always "oud music" if you're not paying attention.

I also think back to when I first started. I bought a Munir Beken CD with compositions in various makam-s. Without having studied the makam-s, I could not have distinguished between them. So, it's not reasonable to assume that someone who doesn't play Turkish/Arabic/Persian music is going to be able to distinguish them either. I've met a couple of Turkish people who don't play, and they've heard of some makam names, but told me they could never recognize a given makam. I shouldn't expect my wife to be able to do so either!

Anyway, it took several months before my wife told me, "I can't take it anymore!". I was surprised she hadn't exploded sooner, actually, considering we live in a pretty small apartment and I was playing for many hours a day at that time. My teacher is a music therapist, and when I told him about it, he told me...of course...music/sound has a substantial effect on a person. Especially at first, when a person is just practicing and isn't so good, I think it's natural that a spouse or roommate isn't going to love it. But even after a practitioner gets really good...I'm not so sure.

I'm friends with a couple who are both professional piano players. The man told me, a musician's spouse will never like his music, because she/he will have heard it all too many times. Surely there are some exceptions. But to me, it's a pity!

I have thought of only practicing away from my wife. That may help her to appreciate the oud when I do play for her. Otherwise, if I did/do play something for her, she has already heard it 100+ times.

Oud Freak - 12-10-2013 at 10:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Eric Stern Music

I saw a movie some years ago. It took place in Lebanon, and in one scene the father took his oud down to play and his wife got a misty look in her eyes and said something like, "I love it when you play your oud!" .

After reading your post, this scene poignant scene comes immediately into mind, is it the one you're talking about? Last scene of "West Beirut" movie by Ziad Doueiri.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txbLn42Jx1s‎

Not really a middle eastern style of oud playing, still it is ideal for this mood and ambiance. Great soulful playing of master John Bilezikjian. Full of emotion.

Hope you enjoy.

Eric Stern Music - 12-10-2013 at 10:48 PM

Hey thanks for posting that clip...I couldn't remember the name of the movie but, yes that's the scene I was recalling from years ago. As you can see in the clip, the wife is wearing a nice negligee and lights a cigarette sexily. My wife is beautiful as well but instead of lighting the cigarette she will get up, walk away, and turn on the blender!

Eric Stern Music - 12-10-2013 at 10:55 PM

And David, you are right. I'm a professional musician (not a professional oudist, that's just for fun and it feeds my soul), and my wife blocks most of the music out. I will say one thing in her defense. It's a noisy house: there's me with my oud and accordion, my son with his violin, and of all things in our basement we have a couple living there who play the trumpet and the trombone! But since the oud is so different from all of those things and softer that those other instruments, I was sure she would love it...like the woman in the movie. But you know a lot of fantasies come from movies! Still I envy you guys with girlfriends and wives (or vice-versa if you are a female oud player) who actually ENJOY listening to you play your oud.

Oud Freak - 12-10-2013 at 11:55 PM

Eric, I suggest you post a short youtube link so we can vote whether your wife is right or wrong!:cool

great movie West Beirut : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Beirut_%28film%29

The wife is performed by Carmen Lebbos, and the husband by Joseph Bou Nassar. Very sincere and expressive actors.

SamirCanada - 12-11-2013 at 06:00 AM

great thread,
It's also enjoyed that movie, a lot of great actors in that one. We have to remember that movies arent real unfortunately. Its every oud player's dream that his women comes to him and says: hayati go get your oud and dandan for me while I poor you a scotch and light your arguileh.

For what its worth I am somewhat in the same boat. Although my wife enjoys my casual playing, partly because my daughter is quiet when I play. She isnt a fan of Oum Katlhoum however, which is what I enjoy playing most...
that said, she definately cannot stand when I am rehearsing a particular peice for hours which I only do if I have a gig coming up. Its funny that this topic is coming up now because I have been driving her particularly nuts with the palestinian national anthem (which is so repetitive) this week since I am performing at a reception in the honor of the consul general for palestine tomorrow.

DoggerelPundit - 12-11-2013 at 09:23 AM

My wife loves the oud and asks me all the time to play.

Of course, this may be because about 7 months ago I started on the kanun.

-Stephen

Microber - 12-11-2013 at 11:55 AM

My ex-wife also didn't like the oud. Although she had encouraged me to buy my first oud when we had travelled to Istanbul.
Now my new wife loves it when I play. She says : let the door open so I can hear you playing when I'm sleeping

But I have to say that she loves everything I do.

I hope that will last...

Robert

Eric Stern Music - 12-11-2013 at 01:04 PM

OK ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Some of you have asked me to post a video of me playing to see if it is actually that bad. So I will let all of you judge. I make no claims to be amazing or professional. I am just a hobbyist BUT I'll be a good sport if you tell me you think my wife is justified in her "noise" approach. Just to clarify, the only one "running" is my wife, but she doesn't really run, she just rolls her eyes and calls it noise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PVkRtWm0Zs&feature=youtu.be

Eric Stern Music - 12-11-2013 at 01:08 PM

...and turns on the blender...

Eric Stern Music - 12-11-2013 at 07:51 PM

Okay you guys, you can tell me if I'm really THAT bad. Like I said I'll be a good sport and I'm always hoping to improve...

Oud Freak - 12-12-2013 at 11:00 PM

It definitely can be a lot better. Keep it up! Bring some earplugs to your wife and practice endlessly

Eric Stern Music - 12-12-2013 at 11:23 PM

Uh oh! Maybe my wife is right! That's cool, I'm addicted no matter what...

SamirCanada - 12-13-2013 at 05:59 AM

listen, we all start somewhere so its very brave of you to post something in order to get advice.

I think you should harness the power of the moustache and wax it like Abou l'3abed. It may help you

https://www.google.ca/search?q=abou+abed&source=lnms&tbm=isc...

For real, keep at it but also keep listening to the pros. They will give you an idea of what to aim for in your playing.

one more advice. Playing improvisations is great but really as a beginer you should try to play peices and other structured excercises because this is what will build you the right foundation of learning how the maqamat interact so your improvisations make sense musicaly. I did recognize you were playing inta omri towards the end which is great but try to keep with the rythm.

One more thing, hold your risha tighter and play a bit further than the soundhole. Also, Pay attention to the tuning of your oud. I heard some strings which arent tuned properly.

Eric Stern Music - 12-13-2013 at 08:35 AM

I really appreciate that advice. I've been playing for almost a year now and following this forum and everyone is so supportive and generous. I actually LIKE being a beginner at something...it puts you in a very good state of mind and you learn to appreciate the hard work others have done. I'll keep trying.

DavidJE - 12-13-2013 at 09:44 AM

Quote:

one more advice. Playing improvisations is great but really as a beginer you should try to play peices and other structured excercises because this is what will build you the right foundation of learning how the maqamat interact so your improvisations make sense musicaly.

I was going to suggest the same thing. My teacher has been giving me well known/regarded compositions in each makam I'm learning, and I am focusing on playing those rather than improvisation...at first. He did tell me to practice improvisation early on, but not until I understand the progression of the makam, based on seyir and/or compositions.

I don't think there is a hard rule for everyone, but he told me that as a rule of thumb, I should learn ~15 compositions in a makam in order to have a good feeling for it, how different composers approach it, common modulations to other makam-s, etc.

Playing compositions, you can sound pretty good, pretty fast, as long as you do keep your oud tuned.

Jody Stecher - 12-13-2013 at 10:20 AM

We cannot see your picking hand in the video (are you left handed or is the video reversed?). In any case the sound is similar to what would be gotten with a small guitar plectrum. To get an authentic oud sound the down stroke must involve both gravity and the wrist and although there are small varieties of plectrum grip, the best voice of an oud remains buried unless brought out by a particular technique. Search this website for details. One of your strings has a fierce buzz. Maybe your wife is only trying to harmonize by turning on the blender. ;-)

John Erlich - 12-13-2013 at 10:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by spyblaster

why don't u use a silent oud with an amp and headphones? it will totally cost about 800$ but will definitely solve your problem. just in case u love her and dont wanna have problem with her.

its very strange though, here in Iran being an instrumentalist make u sexy for girls!

LOL! After two very unsuccessful attempts at music (viola at 9; trombone at 10), I started playing guitar when I was 13, because I thought it would make me popular with the girls. However, I quickly switched from playing rock-n-roll to playing jazz, and it had the opposite effect (I grew up in a provincial capital, not a cosmopolitan city). I now live in a much more cosmopolitan city, and I do get a bit of attention as an oud player. Certainly not "rock star status," but I think the music is partly what drew my wife to me. She definately prefers to hear oud more than guitar, as have the two cats we've had since we've been together. The musical tastes of our 9-year-old son are totally opposite, though...

Eric Stern Music - 12-13-2013 at 04:18 PM

So as I said I appreciate the feedback everybody but let me clarify I didn't actually post the video for advice (I like the advice I'm getting), but just as a response to Oud Freak who said:

"Eric, I suggest you post a short youtube link so we can vote whether your wife is right or wrong!:cool"

So the vote is probably that she is RIGHT! OK, she still loves me. Here's what I'm asking...since you guys are so nice to point out stuff can I post another one (I'll play my Turkish oud this time) with the INTENT of getting feedback? Would that be ok? I don't want to take up people's time and I know that there are all sorts of skype lessons too get so I'm not asking for a bunch of free lessons but maybe ONE diagnostic from a video with the actual intention of getting feedback, unlike last time? Thanks guys, you have been super helpful.

Doc139 - 12-13-2013 at 10:01 PM

Dear Eric,

I hope your accordion playing is better than your oud playing ...

I had the same impression like most other guys who wrote before me: 1. find a good teacher, 2. instead of improvising why don't you try to play some melodic and easy tunes like "Uskudara" or "the stone rose" (I attach a scan from Marian Toshich's book "The Basics of Oud") - I am pretty sure your wife will appreciate more this sweet tunes, at least so does my wife...
Sorry for the advice you were not looking for...
anyway, keep on going!

Alexander

majnuunNavid - 12-13-2013 at 11:54 PM

I would also recommend playing along to recordings of the tunes you are working on, because that will allow your ear to hear the difference between the recording and what you are playing... and you will naturally have a chance to adapt your playing to match the record.

The trick is getting your Oud in tune with the recording... Next week I'm posting a video tutorial on how to properly tune your Oud by ear. You can sign up to receive news of its release at http://www.oudforguitarists.com.

My girlfriend didn't mind your Oud playing. I guess that makes me very lucky.

Good luck! You're well on your way.

Brian Prunka - 12-14-2013 at 08:47 AM

Quote: Originally posted by majnuunNavid

The trick is getting your Oud in tune with the recording... Next week I'm posting a video tutorial on how to properly tune your Oud by ear. You can sign up to receive news of its release at http://www.oudforguitarists.com.

Of course everyone should be able to tune the oud by ear, but a more efficient solution for the issue of playing along with recordings is to get a program like Transcribe, which allows you to retune the recording rather than your oud. Sometime the recording is a half step or even a whole step low, I don't know about you but I am not going to retune my oud up and down a whole step that often.

NeighborOud - 12-14-2013 at 11:50 AM

I am glad I live in a musical house! My spouse plays the piano and the clarinet, and also sings. I play various stringed instruments, diatonic accordion and drums. No conflict here!

But I know many musicians who have issues with their partner who dislikes their music...

Alfaraby - 12-14-2013 at 03:12 PM

Maybe it's the player from whom the wife is running away

Don't give up:
A youngman went to an old clairvoyant ...
She said: 20 Lean years are ahead of you !
He wondered: and afterwards ?
She said: You'll get used to ...

So play more & don't be deterred. You'll get better or she'll get accustomed.
Mine did :rolleyes:

Yours indeed
Alfaraby

ALAMI - 12-14-2013 at 11:59 PM

My wife loves the music (as long as it is not some savage Maqam like Segah or Mustaar"). She has a fine ear and when I try to compose a piece and ask her for an opinion, she can be of great help with comments and suggestions, but let's be frank and put ourselves in their shoes

Sometimes it is not really about the music, even if stated as such, it is about the time we spend with our oud, all those visits to relatives, shopping, going to movies etc... for which we invent twisted excuses in order to skip while the truth is that we prefer staying home playing our oud. The room filled with ten ouds does not help either. married men should know that a hill can hide a mountain...married oudists should be aware how they are sometimes like teenagers with a playstation.

Eric Stern Music - 12-15-2013 at 09:01 AM

Thanks guys.

majnuunNavid - 12-15-2013 at 02:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka

[/ rquote]

Of course everyone should be able to tune the oud by ear, but a more efficient solution for the issue of playing along with recordings is to get a program like Transcribe, which allows you to retune the recording rather than your oud. Sometime the recording is a half step or even a whole step low, I don't know about you but I am not going to retune my oud up and down a whole step that often.

It seems I am quite behind the times. That is awesome! I agree, better to change the pitch of the record than the Oud. If this program existed back in the day when I was doing this a lot, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. I will mention this program in the video. Thanks Brian! However doing it manually is still good ear practice for beginners.

jack - 12-15-2013 at 07:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ALAMI

Love it.

jdowning - 12-16-2013 at 01:10 PM

.... and it is even worse if one also makes these things (ouds or lutes etc.)!

Fritz - 12-16-2013 at 01:49 PM

I just saw a bit of the video... and after a few seconds I noticed that the Oud-sound hearable isn´t matching the way to play of the actor ! These are completely different things... audio and video isn´t the same !

Hmm...

Eric Stern Music - 12-17-2013 at 01:04 PM

The movie? Yes I think someone said it was John Belizikian who is actually playing in the movie.

hussamd - 12-18-2013 at 06:18 PM

Find a song that she likes and play it. My wife runs to the sound-proofed basement when I am in my metal tirade. I don't take it personal. I am getting my first oud soon after 28 years of heavy metal and she is looking forward to it - I think!

Eric Stern Music - 1-23-2021 at 08:26 PM

So there is a coda to this story. It is, I think seven or eight years later. During these years I have practiced for hours a day, read this forum extensively, traveled and studied oud and maqam with some amazing master teachers. During the pandemic here in Portland, we also had smoke from wildfires and so, instead of practicing alone in my studio every morning upstairs I practiced downstairs in the living room. After a few days, my wife came to me and said, "I know you practice every day but I never hear you upstairs. I'm so glad you have been playing downstairs. It's sounds soooo beautiful." It's funny...back when I started this thread I thought I was pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A6l-FaGUKo&feature=youtu.be
Nope. I sucked (and apparently didn't know how to flip the video either). Here's me now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl_w-zJnynw&feature=youtu.be
Thinking that I was pretty good was the Dunning-Kruger effect where people who are newbies don't know how bad they are because they don't know enough to discern between what is good and what isn't. I've learned much (A LOT from this great forum) and practiced much. Now that I know more I can say that I suck less. Anyway, more oud and less blender around here. Love to this wonderful forum. It's made a happier home for me. My wife thanks you.

Brian Prunka - 1-24-2021 at 08:56 AM

Hey Eric, I remember this thread from years ago! Hard to believe it's been 7 years . . . it's great to see the huge improvement between the two videos.

I think that music is a good example of why the Dunning-Kreuger effect is not necessarily a bad thing. After teaching for years, I've come to realize that most students would give up if they truly understood how bad they sound early on and how much they need to learn. Even intermediate students often have a large gap in their awareness. As long as one doesn't become complacent as a result, being slightly delusional about how much you still have to learn helps keep people from feeling completely overwhelmed. One reason (among many) why I think kids have such an advantage over adults in learning music — kids are incredibly ignorant! They don't have much experience and so they tend not to judge their playing as much and just have fun with it.

Doc139 - 1-24-2021 at 11:10 AM

Hi Eric,
what a beautiful surprise to read and hear from you again after all these years!!

I remember well your first video in 2013. It was the same year I had started with playing the oud! Replying to your post we all tried not to discourage you too much but still be honest about the relativ lack of enjoyment when listening to your improvisation on this instrument we all love...

What a difference from then to now, after these seven years of practice! Your hair got grey but your playing improved quite a bit. :air guitar: Congratulation to your discipline and commitment and to the progress you made! I like this new video a lot and what you do with the loop-machine, you sound like a whole band, great! And nice to see how much fun you have with it all! And the best: congratulations on convincing your wife to like oud music!!!!!

greetings to Portland, and keep the ball rolling, man!
Alexander

Aldana02 - 1-24-2021 at 11:57 PM

Hello Eric and thank you for your update.
You give me good hope that, maybe one day, my wife will not chase me from the living-room when I try to start playing the oud there

Eric Stern Music - 1-25-2021 at 09:57 AM

Aldana:

Brian, that means a lot coming from you as I studied carefully many of your posts and learned a lot. Alexander, I appreciated everyone's honest reponse initially, no matter how hard to swallow. Turns out I should have listened to my wife.
Thanks all. Again, much gratitude for this forum. I've learned so much here.

ChanningPDX - 2-2-2021 at 12:23 PM

When I first saw this, I thought, "What?! Why would Eric's wife say that? He plays really well!" Then I saw it was a thread revival from 2013. Ha!

Lovely playing in your recent video, Eric. The taqsim was gorgeous! A nice balance of musicality and technique.

To pile on to the other comments, I just celebrated my third "oudiversary", and so far I've been incredibly lucky. My wife has always loved hearing me practice the oud and says it is by far her favorite among the instruments I play, even though it is the one I have the least experience with.

Then again, the other instruments I play are Scottish bagpipes, Irish uilleann pipes, and wooden flute. Those (especially the first) can get a bit loud...

Here's a clip of me playing the Scottish pipes, an instrument I've played for more than 20 years. These dial in at somewhere around 100-110 dB, BTW:

https://soundcloud.com/channing-dodson/march-strathspey-reel-71st-hi...

And here's a clip I did on my Turkish oud about a month ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7SXaVaKJIE

Yeah, I know... Like most musicians (with the possible exception of Prince), listening to recordings of myself makes me cringe. All I can hear on the oud are the mistakes and imperfections. Though given the difference in volume, I don't blame my wife for preferring the latter to the former.

I still have a very long way to go with the oud before I'd call myself even a competent player, but my wife's encouragement coupled with the Dunning-Krueger effect mentioned above have done much to keep me going these past three years.

I often think that learning a musical instrument as an adult, you're constantly having epiphanies--they often just happen to be the same epiphany you had six months ago and then promptly forgot about.

I've also had a lot of acquisitions to keep me motivated: I got hold of the recent reprint of Mutlu Torun's "Ud Metodu" (excellent!), some great new mizraps from Turkey, and a few weeks ago, I received a great new oud in Arabic tuning from Kamil Gül. It's much easier and more comfortable to play than the older used Zeryab oud I'd previously wrestled with in Arabic tuning, so that has me listening to more Arabic players again, even though I plan to remain focused more on the Turkish side of the spectrum for the foreseeable future.

What I really need to do now is find myself a teacher again, specifically one who will mercilessly get me to hammer through more exercises... I had some incredibly helpful lessons in Arabic oud from Nat Hulskamp for a few months when I was first starting out, but it's been all Youtube, books, and trial and error ever since. Sadly, there aren't any teachers locally who focus on Turkish oud. Lots of great teachers online, of course. I'm a bit damned by choice, really.

But as long as I can play my wife's favorite song, "Erev shel Shoshanim", on the oud, I think the wife will be happy.

Eric Stern Music - 2-4-2021 at 10:32 AM

Thanks Channing. As you know I come from an accordion back round so my sympathies to your wife.

Once this pandemic is over, if you can scrape the money together I'd highly recommend attending Makam NY and studying with Yurdal Tokcan if he's teaching. Adam Good (an old high-school buddy and member of this forum) recommended me to do this, some years back. I came to class with all sorts of books on makam (Ederer, Signell) and anticipated discussing all sorts of arcane knowledge, but instead what I got was boot camp. Exercise after exercise for hours a day and during it I wondered sometimes in low moments, if I had wasted my money, but I tell you about a month out of it, after continuing at home and integrating it all I was miles ahead of where I started. Anyway, that's a stop on the path to Turkish music that I recommend, but of course there are many.