Mike's Oud Forums

High arabic tuning, oud shape, advice?

kaldzzz - 2-23-2016 at 03:06 AM

Hello everyone. I am new to the forum. I look forward to making some life lasting friends and learn a great deal of information from you as well as share some of my own after learning to play this great instrument.

I am in the process of transitioning from playing the guitar to the oud. To say the least, I was overwhelmed by the amount of tuning styles out there on the net until I came to this site and read some of the comments out here and learned a few things. My oud, as per attached pictures has 3 nylon (paired) strings and 3 courses of metal-wound.

I tried tuning it in to standard arabic tuning cc, gg, DD, AA, FF, C but the high cc course on the first string sounded too dull or low. I tried moving it (cc) up an octave and it sounded too high and was almost going to snap. I quickly changed up the tuning to a high arabic tuning which appeared normal in terms of pressure and sound "ff, cc, gg, DD, AA, F".

My questions are:

1. Most online tutorials and lessons taught on internet (free and paid) are in the standard arabic tuning. If my oud is tuned using high arabic tuning, would that through me off course?

2. Is the high arabic tuning the right tuning for my oud?

3. How do I know which strings to buy for future replacement

4. Can someone show me where to press on the fingerboard to hit all notes: from C to G or Do to Sol?

5. Any free material to practice with?

6. Do the cracks look worrisome? the oud was bought used.

Thank you, :bowdown::airguitar::wavey:

Ghassan.

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Jody Stecher - 2-23-2016 at 08:27 AM

1) it depends on your abilities to mentally transpose. you can either play one string lower or mentally call your string by names that are an interval of a fourth lower. But you not compelled to use the string that are now on the oud.

2) your Floating Bridge model oud looks like the kind that is usually played in high F tuning. But the way to know how to tune the strings that are on there now is to measure the strings with a micrometer. If they correspond to the diameters of strings intended for F tuning you can safely tune these particular strings to F tuning. Websites that sell oud strings often give diameters and you can ask the proprietors, some of whom participate in this forum.

But there is no reason for you not to get a set of standard C tuning Arabic strings and tune them to the tuning you have found in the tutorials. You cannot harm your oud by tuning it lower.

It is more usual for a high (F) tuned oud to have a double bass course. the photo seems to show a single course. Does your oud have 11 or 12 pegs? Is there a double or single slot for the sixth course in the nut?
Also without knowing the diameters of the strings it is hard to know what tuning for which they are intended.

3) By obtaining the strings intended for the tuning you want to use. In other words, there is a direct correspondence between a set of strings and a tuning. There is an indirect correspondence between an oud and a tuning. Decide on a tuning you want to use and get a set of corresponding strings based on the "scale" length of your oud. "Scale" in this case means the length of the vibrating string between bridge and nut.

4) this is confusing to me. You are referencing guitar sites. Did you mean oud sites? To make sense of any instructional materials about tuning you have to remember that it is standard throughout the world to call the highest thinnest string "the first". On a six course oud the fattest lowest string is the sixth. The partial tuning you have given is not familiar to me as a guitar tuning or as an oud tuning, counting in either direction. It bears some resemblance to Jamil Bashir's unusual tuning.

5) search this site

6) I see some scratches on the back, no visible cracks. If there are any cracks they should be repaired by a qualified luthier.

kaldzzz - 2-23-2016 at 01:12 PM

Thank you Jody, I appreciate the time you put in your response. I re-read question four and it didn't make any sense to me either after reading it the second time. I changed question 4 all together.

Another question is: For example - If I am trying to find where the b or Si note is on the fifth string (AA) using the current tuning on my oud: F, AA, DD, gg, cc, ff: would my left hand placement position be the exact same as if I was trying to hit the b or Si on the 4th course if hypothetically speaking my oud was tuned to D G A d g c?

I am used to referring to notes using CDEFGAB, should I ditch that and solely refer to them as Do Re mi........

My oud has 11 pegs. Also, the nut has two positions for the sixth course. The placement to the extreme left is left open. what conclusion does that draw?

Thanks again for any added input.

Brian Prunka - 2-23-2016 at 02:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by kaldzzz  


Another question is: For example - If I am trying to find where the b or Si note is on the fifth string (AA) using the current tuning on my oud: F, AA, DD, gg, cc, ff: would my left hand placement position be the exact same as if I was trying to hit the b or Si on the 4th course if hypothetically speaking my oud was tuned to D G A d g c?


Yes.
Quote: Originally posted by kaldzzz  


I am used to referring to notes using CDEFGAB, should I ditch that and solely refer to them as Do Re mi........


Either way is fine. Depends who you are talking to. English-speakers and Germans tend to use letter names, Latin/Romance languages use solfege. Most Arabs use solfege or a mix of solfege and Arabic/Turkish/Persian note names (for the microtones).
Quote: Originally posted by kaldzzz  

My oud has 11 pegs. Also, the nut has two positions for the sixth course. The placement to the extreme left is left open. what conclusion does that draw?

One can conclude that your oud has 11 strings. Do I pass?
Just kidding.
There is no reason that there should be 12 slots in the nut if the oud has 11 pegs. There really is no conclusion to draw here (other than the oud was likely made in a factory the slots all nuts with 12 slots regardless of the oud it's going on). You can still use either tuning, but you'd need a different set of strings to use the lower classic tuning.

What led you to play the oud? What oud players do you enjoy? This can help you figure out what tuning makes sense.

High f' players:
Munir Bashir
Naseer Shamma (my understanding is that he actually uses this tuning but tuned down to e' or eb')
Anouar Brahem
Said Chraibi
Rahim Alhaj

High c' players:
Riad al-Sounbati
Farid al-Atrash
Simon Shaheen
M. Abdel Wahab

Some classic players used both tunings at different times, though the lower tuning predominates (Qasabji, George Michel).

kaldzzz - 2-23-2016 at 03:15 PM

Hey Brian,

You certainly have a sense of humor. thanks for the good laugh.

Growing up in the middle east and listening to Assyrian and Arabic music from Iraq really attracted me to the oud.

listening to Naseer Shama and Munir really inspired me on hopefully a long and lasting oud playing journey .

cheers.

kaldzzz - 2-23-2016 at 03:24 PM

Hey Brian,

You certainly have a sense of humor. thanks for the good laugh.

Growing up in the middle east and listening to Assyrian and Arabic music from Iraq really attracted me to the oud.

listening to Naseer Shama and Munir really inspired me on hopefully a long and lasting oud playing journey .

cheers.

Dr. Oud - 2-27-2016 at 08:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by kaldzzz  
....6. Do the cracks look worrisome? ...

Cracks or open seams in the back are common but should be glued shut. Hide glue is best, but since these joints don't need to be repaired, you could use any wood glue, even epoxy, but not white polyvinyl or cyanoacrilate (crazy glue). If the crack can be pushed shut and/or aligned, do it then wipe the excess glue off the surface and tape it in place with - masking, duct, whatever. After the glue cures the surface can be cleaned with alcohol to remove dirt, or acetone to remove tape residue..

Humam - 2-27-2016 at 08:16 PM

Hello Ghassan,

I'm new to oud too and I'm using these site to learn:

http://www.i3zif.com/ar/learn-oud-for-beginners-01

They have free courses, paid courses, and PDF document with each lesson which helped me a lot to follow what the video is talking about.

This site is very useful too:

http://www.oudforguitarists.com/oud-tips-and-advice/

Good luck

Humam

kaldzzz - 2-29-2016 at 05:53 PM

Hi Humam and thank you for your input. I have been to i3zif website before and from the looks of it, they have amazing videos and packages. The only problem is the oud they use is tuned using standard Arabic tuning. My oud has is tuned to high Arabic not the same they use which will make it kind of useless for me to follow through with their lessons. I tried searching the Web for video lessons to buy and follow through using high ff but no luck. I am not a big fan of Skype as I would like to just kind of be on my own when watching my lessons and have the luxury of rewinding etc. At this point I am unable to find any video tutorials that use my iraqi tuning. It seems like I have hot a roadblock and might just go back to playing the guitar again. What a shame...

Humam - 2-29-2016 at 07:43 PM

I agree it's a little bit confusing but I think you should not give up.

I'm trying to learn Iraqi tuning too, and I'm having the same problem because, and I could be wrong, I think i3zif.com are using a Syrian style oud (zeryab oud).

I'm half way through the oud course 1 and things are getting better as I'm going through the course.

My oud tuning is, top to bottom: F A D g c f
I think their oud tuning is, top to bottom: G A D g c

However, I'm still able to do most of the exercise and learn the basics in the same tI'me which might be easier for you because of your experience with the guitar.

I suggest you try different thinks until you find something you can use.

Good luck and don't give up.

Humam

kaldzzz - 2-29-2016 at 08:34 PM

Do you not find it confusing they have a different tuning on their oud? I found some videos online but they're very short and limited. Nevertheless useful in terms of finding out where to hit the fingerboard with your left hand on the iraqi tuning etc.

Have a look here you might find something useful http://www.listenarabic.com/learnoud/

Also, do you know a place where you can access arabic songs written on sheet music?

BTW what part of Middle East are you from?

Thank you,
Ghassan.

Brian Prunka - 2-29-2016 at 08:57 PM

The lowest string of the oud is not very important. Plenty of people play with the following tuning:

F A d g c'
or
G A d g c'

This is the "base" of oud music. You will note that these strings are the same regardless of whether you use the high f' or the low C. You can simply play all the exercises and ignore your high f' string. If the exercise uses low C at all, you can ignore it or find another way of compensating. The low C wasn't common until relatively recently anyway.

If you like, you can later try transposing everything higher by a fourth (moving up one string), but it's best to start be simply ignoring your high f'.

Those things on the sides of your head are your friends! :D

Humam - 3-1-2016 at 08:10 PM

That's correct I agree with Brian.

The basics are the same and as a beginner I just follow for the basic string F A D G C and I'm ignoring the last string.

Regarding the songs, there is some really nice things here on this blog, i3zif, and Oud for guitars too.

Regards.

Humam

Laszlo - 8-21-2016 at 05:00 AM

@kaldzzz: Your instrument is clearly capable to be used with the classical Bashir tuning. F-ff-cc-gg-DD-CC.
The lowest F is put next to the highest f at the first course and it opens endless possibilities. Watch some Munir Bashir videos. Love and peace is a beautiful song written by Munir Bashir and played here by Omar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcuycQms8o
Anyway, I am also learning this song. :-)

SufianSaeed - 11-6-2016 at 01:56 PM

@laszlo random question since you've mentioned that you're learning the F-ff-cc-gg-DD-CC tuning
i've noticed that Munir does that and i recognize it was actually a thing oud players did long time ago if am not mistaken then they stopped but what makes me wonder every-time is choosing CC instead of AA at the lowest courses , am getting a second oud that will be a floating bridge in few days because am really interested in munir's style but am planing to play it as F-ff-cc-gg-DD-AA
i just can't get my around that you're unable to have a low B/SI , please correct me if am mistaken about this , maybe am missing something out

neviditsin - 11-25-2018 at 09:06 AM

What usual scale of iraq oud with high f tuning?