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Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-2-2005 at 12:00 PM

I'm finally able to be here again, and what a fine occasion this is. I want to thank Dr.Oud for this wonderful discovery, and as ever Mike for making all of this happen. Jameel you never cease to amaze me my friend, keep it up all of you. This art needs folks like you.

Now let's talk about a very famous Nahat oud in these quarters. Much has been said about the oud below and it's great attributes. But very little was known about the original owner....that is until now:

He was a brilliant composer, one of the greatest ever. He was also a great player...and a knowledgeable oud collector with an exceptional taste for timeless pieces like this one. His collection included more than 36 ouds from all the great masters. Including several Nahats, Goerges, Gohary...and others.

Some of you may have guessed his name already...I'll post it this evening (8:30GMT)

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-2-2005 at 12:53 PM

You know him and I'm sure most of you admire his work:

Mohammad Al Qasabji

Qassab and his Nahat

Jameel - 5-2-2005 at 01:01 PM

Sidi,

Welcome back. We missed you! Now I'm dying to know how this oud was owned by Qasabji, and how on earth it ended up gathering dust in a guitar shop in California.

P.S. I heard from a close friend that at Simon Shaheen's concert last night at MIT, dedicated to Farid and Asmahan, he performed on an oud of Farid himself, the one that Farid used the most, right before the highly inlaid one he used before he died.

Qassab and his Nahat

habeebkum - 5-2-2005 at 01:25 PM

hi jameel, do you or does any body else have any recording of the concert?

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-2-2005 at 02:02 PM

Hey Jameel,

Simon Shaheen is truly worthy of his status, and deserves even more for his contributions. I really hope to see some media from that MIT concert.

I want to clear a common misconception about Farid's infamous inlaid oud. Many people think he started using it shortly before he died, and that is wrong. Farid first appeared with that oud in the movie "Afrita Hanem^", back in 1949. But he had actually purchased it earlier in 1943.* So when he performs "3Ish Anta", in his 1973 movie "Zaman Ya Houb" the oud is some 30+ years old! Yet somehow it still had a brand new looking face...and an incredible sound, needless to say.

*Check elrabee3's post below for an interview with Farid on that.

^typed in a hurry earlier...thanks rabee3

Qassab and his Nahat

Jameel - 5-2-2005 at 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidi
Hey Jameel,

Simon Shaheen is truly worthy of his status, and deserves even more for his contributions. I really hope to see some media from that MIT concert.

I want to clear a common misconception about Farid's infamous inlaid oud. Many people think he started using it shortly before he died, and that is wrong. Farid 1st appeared with that oud in the movie Habeeb El Omr, which saw his debut as a film producer back in 1945! I understand he purchased it a couple of years prior to that. So on the film footage where he performs Ish Anta, the oud is some 30+ years old! Yet somehow it still had a brand new looking face...and an incredible sound, needless to say.

P.S: I will post about "Si M'hammad" shortly.

Very interesting Sidi! I'm working on getting a recording of that concert, and some pics of the oud.

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-3-2005 at 04:24 PM

Here it is...the man and his oud:

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-3-2005 at 04:29 PM

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-3-2005 at 04:34 PM

** As you can see from this rare photo, it is indeed "Si M'hammad's" oud. The ivory fingerboard was replaced/reworked somewhere along the way. Given the quality and the style of those modified inlays, they may have been done by a Nahat.

-- Case Closed --

Qassab and his Nahat

Jameel - 5-3-2005 at 05:10 PM

Wow, Sidi! Really neat info. Incredible. :bowdown:

So the mystery remains, how on earth did this oud end up in a guitar shop in Southern California, purchased by Hamza El Din for less than $100? This oud should be in a museum.

Qassab and his Nahat

TruePharaoh21 - 5-3-2005 at 05:19 PM

What I want to know is... which shop in Southern California was it? I'll go every day until a Nahat ends up there. And to think... for less than 100 bucks... If Hamza el-Din is reading this... I'll give you 150!

How long ago was the oud bought by him?

And... on a side note... Sidi, would you happen to be Sidi Mohammed, from the farid-el-atrache.com forums? If so... it's been a while, man!

TP21

Qassab and his Nahat

Sidi - 5-3-2005 at 05:44 PM

Thanks Jameel,

That's the missing part of the story. How can a great piece of our history be sold for 100 bucks? :shrug:

One can only speculate on the events that led to that tragedy. Still I do have some views on the matter, I will post them soon.

I want to say that I'm glad Mr. El Din rescued this oud. But I do believe he should act towards ensuring a safe and permanent home for it...like a museum.

There is an even more disturbing side to this story. As I said above Qasab was an avid oud collector, he probably owned some 40 ouds or so...where are they today? No one really knows...

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Oud
I think I recognize Qasabji playing with Umm Kalthoum on the Tunis satellite tv channel Saturday nights. Or is that Sombati?

Yes Doc, it is Qasabji...Sunbati would never be in that seat.

Not that it takes anything away form Qasab, but his reasons are not shared by his student/colleague. Qasabji was not just being "Awwad UmmKalthoum" from that seat, as is commonly perceived. He played the crucial role of synching the orchestra to UmmKalthoum's feeling and emotions as she performed. He basically used his oud to set the tone and pace of the entire performance to her preferences. Which was exactly what Farid did in his concerts. This subject deserves further elaboration. I will come back to it soon.

P.S: Hey TP it's me.. :wavey:

Qassab and his Nahat

Jameel - 5-3-2005 at 05:58 PM

Sidi,

I look forward to more of your thoughts on this subject.

I also noticed that at some point the fingerboard of the oud was modified. It looks like the original was just plain bone or ivory, but in Daniel O Donnel's photos, it is clearly inlaid. I wonder who was responsible for this modification....

Qassab and his Nahat

TruePharaoh21 - 5-3-2005 at 06:04 PM

Sidi!! I'd like everyone to know that this guy is the biggest source of information that I have really ever encountered. He knows all the cool little informational bits that make everyone walk away from their computer amazed. I still remember when you told us about el-Bidaoui and Farid. My goodness, man, you're quite the storyteller.

Sidi... I also remember that you were notorious for making us all wait for more info. A greaaaat storyteller, I tell you.

It's good to know that you're here, man.

Bring on the info.

TP21

Mike - 5-4-2005 at 08:37 AM

Hey Sidi,

I agree with TP...you are THE storyteller! Nice to have you back bud. I love the collages you made of Qassab and his oud! Looking forward to finding out more. Hey, I split the previous thread b/c I think we have two topics here, and I think both are important and very very interesting. I hope you don't mind bud.

Take care,
Mike

Amos - 5-4-2005 at 09:20 AM

Hi everyone,
It should interest everyone to know that my teacher, Al Bardezbanian,
owns a Nahat identical to the one that is being discussed here. Peter Kyvelos restored it and it appears to be exactly the same design as the one in the photos above. There was some talk of there being only one other like it, owned by Hamza El Din. Peter almost bought the oud years ago, and just missed the opportunity for a reason that I cannot recall! I will try to get Al to post some photos of his Nahat...it is truly a work of art, and as Sidi said, it belongs in a museum. I played it once, and it was like holding a living creature in my hands! All the best, Amos

habeebkum - 5-4-2005 at 10:38 AM

its great to log into the forums and learn so much about the history of different ouds

it gives life to every oud and makes you think of them as living things instead of just objects. thanks sidi for all this info :applause:

Jameel - 5-4-2005 at 10:42 AM

Amos,

I know Al, he's a great guy. You're lucky to have him as your teacher. Hamza's oud and Al's oud share a few similar features, but are far from identical. For others who want to compare, check this thread. I'd have to say though that after Hamza's Nahat, Al's Nahat is the second nicest Nahat I've seen.

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=322#pid1422

This morning I also received the following message from Daniel O'Donnell, the man who was kind enough to send me the original photos that I posted of the 1917 Abdo Nahat, and who is a personal friend of Hamza's. He asked that I post his note to me here. His comments and opinions are his own.

Jameel

I have just looked through the link that you e-mailed me. I have a few
thoughts to share, and I wish you would pass them along to the mikeouds
discussion (I am at work now, and must send this quickly!).
The first comment is that I am very glad that forum participants are paying
attention to the history of the Nahat family and their ouds, and I am also
glad if in some small way I helped this process.
The second comment is that I find it unseemly to read what may be (or may
not!) innuendoes about how Hamza El Din acquired this oud, and what will
become of it. About the former, by both accounts of how he acquired it, one
from Hamza himself (he stated to me he actually paid aout $300 for it in the
1970s, and the consumer price index has increased 400% since then - so,
about $1,200+ today), he acquired it in good faith in a used instrument shop
in neglected condition, not as illicitly-obtained goods. About the latter,
Hamza is still alive, well, and performing: he is 76, and survived a stroke
a few years ago, and has performed in recent months in Russia and New York
City. He may be in the sunset of his life, but his light is brighter than
ever - and I am certain his able and supportive wife, Nabra, has received
his instructions about how to dispose of his estate, when that time comes.
The oud is of museum-quality, but it is also a remarkable musical
instrument, and I hope it wil be available to a musician whose skills are
worthy of it. I for one am much more concerned about what will become of
his field recordings. Nubian traditional music is nearly gone, given what
has happened in Sudan, and while in this forum Hamza may be seen only as an
oud performer, in the larger world he is thought of as an
ethnomusicologist-composer-performer along the lines of Bela Bartok, who has
worked far from his homeland for most of his life.
I think we need to have a very close look at the inscription on the shamsa /
soundhole ornament. My Arabic-reading skills are not good, but there
appears to be a dedication to the person for whom the oud was commissioned:
Hamza said he was told it was made for a Syrian amir during Ottoman control
of Syria. This makes me wonder how Qasabji obtained it.
About Qasabji, as-Simbati, and Umm Khalthoum, the political exigencies of
that time are fairly well-documented. The combination of Qasabji and Umm
Khalthoum was due not to artistic choice, but to political manipulation.
The President of Egypt had absolute control of the media, and who was
allowed to perform on TV and radio, and funding of orchestras, and so on:
as-Simbati was part of a rival political group and was pushed aside when the
combination of Qasabji and Umm Khalthoum was decided-upon. In Egypt, and
elsewhere, the old-timers still hold Riyadh as-Simbati in high regard.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel O'Donnell, Portland, Oregon

Sidi - 5-4-2005 at 04:45 PM

Hi,

Mike thanks for giving my humble contribution it's own full thread.

I'm also glad you like the collages. Pictures like "Qasab and his oud" give us a nice window on history.

My thanks to TP, and the cool folks who posted here. I really hope I can live up to your appreciation. You raised the bar for me, but your energy keeps me going.

Jameel I would like to thank Mr.Odonnel for sharing those nice pictures, before I comment on his email to you and us.

First let me say that my posts were in no way insinuative of Hamza El Din, or the way he purchased this oud. If anything I was " glad Mr. El Din rescued this oud" That is how I continue to see his side of the transaction. Beyond that, I reserve the right to express my discontent with such a sad situation. I do find it unseemly to throw 1200$ and a nation’s history in the balance. I do not want to see that oud or any other masterpieces jeopardized like that anymore. That is why I wanted everyone to know the true value of this oud. It is also why I still ask Hamza El Din to plan for the oud's safe being.

Quote:

From Daniel O'Donnell’s Message to Jameel
I think we need to have a very close look at the inscription on the shamsa /
soundhole ornament. My Arabic-reading skills are not good, but there
appears to be a dedication to the person for whom the oud was commissioned:
Hamza said he was told it was made for a Syrian amir during Ottoman control
of Syria. This makes me wonder how Qasabji obtained it.

I’m surprised you say this…the Shamasa happens to be least exciting aspect of the oud…bar it’s craftsmanship of course. It is a standard model you can find on many Nahats, including Al Bardezbanian’s. If you read it carefully you will be able to recognize the names of all the Arabic Maqams and Ajnas. The writing in the middle reads, “Abdo Nahat and (his) Sons” the -prince of a- luthier who made the oud.

You can crosscheck the maqam names here: http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamindex.html

Did Hamza El Din ever mention who it was that told him about the elusive prince?

Quote:

From Daniel O'Donnell’s Message to Jameel
About Qasabji, as-Simbati, and Umm Khalthoum, the political exigencies of
that time are fairly well-documented. The combination of Qasabji and Umm
Khalthoum was due not to artistic choice, but to political manipulation.
The President of Egypt had absolute control of the media, and who was
allowed to perform on TV and radio, and funding of orchestras, and so on:
as-Simbati was part of a rival political group and was pushed aside when the
combination of Qasabji and Umm Khalthoum was decided-upon. In Egypt, and
elsewhere, the old-timers still hold Riyadh as-Simbati in high regard.

Forgive me for saying this, but this part of your message is almost laughable. I tought we were the ones who suffered from conspiracy theories.

For starters, Qasabji’s last contribution to Umm Kulthum’s repertoire was his work in the movie “Fatma” in 1948 way before the Nationalist era. Naser was a die hard fan of U.Kulthum, and he wanted her to join AbdelWahab for a high profile collaboration. Both resisted for a full year, then Naser personally asked them again. The two finally got together for “Enta Omri” an all time classic.

So why was Qasab so attached to U.Koulthoum? Love…pure and simple. He was deeply in love with her since 1923, and had hoped she would marry him some day. It turned out to be one sided…at least from a romantic point of view.

I still want to clear more points, but I'll stop here for today.

Thank you all,

Sidi

Daniel Donnell - 5-4-2005 at 09:57 PM

Good evening, gentlemen,
Well, maybe I'm getting cranky in my middle age! :rolleyes:

Let's begin by saying I am not interested in discussing early 20th century Egyptian politics in an oud forum. When I read through this thread the first time, two things stood out a bit among all the very fine contributions (and thank you all!). One was that if I owned a great oud, I would be taken aback to see people whom I might or might not know discussing what would happen to it after my demise. I could go Sufi on you and say we never really own such things, but there are other websites for that kind of discussion. The other was that AS A THREAD within this thread I picked up on the disappearance or dispersal of the Qassab collection and the re-appearance of at least one of them in southern California, of all places, where it was acquired by Hamza.
About the shamsa, two thoughts:
I can read the maqam and the little band of numbers, and the signature in the center, and even the maqam groupings. What I cannot read, because the calligraphy is very elaborate and the letters overlap, is the first band around the signature center, and this appears to be a dedicatory inscription. Hamza told me, and this was a long time ago, that the person who sold him the oud had passed along the story about it once belonging to an amir in Syria, but where the seller heard the story, I do not know.
I had a brief exchange with Rufie Richard Barnes about instrumental acoustics in general and about this shamsa in particular: the shams, which is 4 5/8" wide, is unusually large, especially when compared to Turkish ouds ... and it is bone or ivory laminated to a dark hardwood ... with a total thickness well over 1/8". Even with much of this cut out for the calligraphy, this places a huge and rigid mass in excess of two ounces right in the center of the soundboard. My thought is that this mass displaces much of the resonance of the primary tone, leaving the higher overtones in acoustic "relief" as it were, which gives this oud its remarkable bell-like resonance. Think of the tabla drum of India with the layered-up rigid patch in the center: the primary tone of the drumhead is diminished by the patch, and the other tones, the overtones or harmonics, are much louder as a result. Now, I am not a builder, but I think this could be very useful information to those who are. A simpler way to attain this overtone-enhancing effect might be to glue a ring of very hard wood around the shamsa on the underside of the face. In my humble opinion, luthiers pay a great deal of attention to bracing, and not enough to other factors like the mass of bridgeplates and so on.
I'm tempted to address another sub-topic I see in this thread, about heritage value of such works of art, and where such items rightfully belong, but I'l leave that one alone after mentioning there are two valid perspectives that contradict each other (there goes the Sufi again!): cultures sometimes go off track, and destroy their own heritage (just look at what happened in present-day Afghanistan in recent years), so it may be a good thing that so much of value lies n protected status ... but, when cultural artifacts and treasures are curated and collected outside their context, the inhabitants of that context are denied access to something that gives them continuity in their civilization. Sometimes cultural treasures can be re-introduced, however. For one fascinating example of this, John Baily at Goldsmiths College in England is currently re-introducing the music of Afghanistan to its homeland from "exile" status.
I do go on a bit - good night! - Daniel

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 04:02 PM

welcome back Sidi. i alwyes enjoy reading ur posts.
i hope u dont dissapear again. ur posts are required.

as usual, nice discussion. i remember i read somewhere that Qasab used to collect ouds, and he used to hang them on the wall in his appartment.

BTW, abadi el johar own one of qasab's oud. he bought from eygpt, he found the oud, and he liked the sound of the oud, after he bought it, he found out that the ouds was one of qasab's ouds.

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 04:04 PM

Quote:

check this audio file, fareed is talking about that famous oud. it is very old oud.

Hala Jaber,

Sidi - 5-5-2005 at 04:58 PM

This is a fantastic contribution, it will help clear a few misunderstandings about that timeless piece. :applause:

The Highlights:

* Farid hints to his ownership of many many ouds

* He only loves two of them (at the time of this interview)

* He says the inlaid oud was purchased in 1943 from an "artist of a luthier" in Halab (Aleppo).

* He was told it took 2 years in the making, after which the maker decided it should be given to him (Farid).

* Comments about the unusual coexistence of a wonderful sound, and mother of pearl inlays in that oud.

Great Stuff Jaber,

Sidi

P.S: Jaber check your PM

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:03 PM

Farid used that oud n many of his movies. if u remember he used the same oud in Lahen el khlood movie (1952), Men Ajal Hobi (1959), Shate` el hob (1961), plus his last two movies zaman ya hob (1973) and Nagham fe hayati (1974)

picture from movie (men ajal hobi) from the introduction of song (hekayat Garami) when farido played austrias

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:04 PM

anoter picture from the same movie.

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:05 PM

same movie,

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:07 PM

from the movie Zaman Ya Hob, shot from his masterpiece "Esh Anta"

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:10 PM

poster of his movie "Shate` el hob". same oud also.

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:12 PM

poster of movie "Zaman Ya Hob".. i think in this movie Farid showed this oud the most.

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:14 PM

and in his concerts also.. i m wondering were is this PRICELESS oud now. :rolleyes:

elrabee3 - 5-5-2005 at 06:15 PM

if i am not wrong. this is the 2nd oud that Farid was proud of, becuse i saw mnay pictures of Farid using this oud..

Alan - 5-5-2005 at 08:07 PM

Daniel wrote
"The oud is of museum-quality, but it is also a remarkable musical
instrument, and I hope it wil be available to a musician whose skills are
worthy of it."

I hope this oud as beautiful and historic as it is, does not die in a museum. It would be better if it was played to continue to spread the beauty and history within it. Maybe a fine replica can be a stand in for the cold glass case.

Jameel - 5-6-2005 at 04:27 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Farid's brother (Foad) has this oud. Sidi can confirm this. His father has visited Foad and held the oud in question. Sidi posted a picture of this meeting back in the days of the Farid-al-atrache.com forums. (you can still read some of the old posts and some of thw website here: http://web.archive.org/web/20020705055206/http://www.farid-al-atrac... )

elrabee3 - 5-6-2005 at 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel
If I'm not mistaken, Farid's brother (Foad) has this oud. Sidi can confirm this. His father has visited Foad and held the oud in question. Sidi posted a picture of this meeting back in the days of the Farid-al-atrache.com forums. (you can still read some of the old posts and some of thw website here: http://web.archive.org/web/20020705055206/http://www.farid-al-atrac... )

thats true Jameel, but fuad passed away couple of years back. so it could be with his son, Faisal.
what worried me is that i read before that Farid apartment was stolen and some of his ouds also stolen before Faisal sold that apartment.

for us, farid fans, this oud is part of Farid's heratige.

BTW, thanks for the link. i didnt know that the archove of Farid's forum is still online.

oud size

revaldo29 - 5-6-2005 at 08:07 AM

What are the dimensions for the oud that farid is holding in this last picture? It seems to me that the bowl is larger than many of the ouds I see on this forum and larger than mine.

samzayed - 5-6-2005 at 04:34 PM

I always thought it looks big, because he was little guy.

Sidi - 5-6-2005 at 04:44 PM

Hi,

I just want to thank everyone again for their contributions here. I'll resume posting on the subject tomorrow. Also keep an eye out for a full thread on Farid's masterpiece!

-Sidi :wavey:

elrabee3 - 5-6-2005 at 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by samzayed
I always thought it looks big, because he was little guy.

actully that oud is big, if i am not wrong, it is the same oud that farid used in his famous vedio-recorded el rabee3 concert.

elrabee3 - 5-6-2005 at 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidi
Hi,

I just want to thank everyone again for their contributions here. I'll resume posting on the subject tomorrow. Also keep an eye out for a full thread on Farid's masterpiece!

-Sidi :wavey:

i cant wait for that thread. and sory for changing the subject from Qasab's oud to Farid's oud. i appoligise.
Qasab deserve alot of respect from all of the oud lovers in the world. i remember i used to watch Umm Kulthoom concerts just to see him playing the oud. :airguitar:

Sidi - 5-7-2005 at 12:44 PM

Hey Jaber,

Don't worry about it bro, we Farido fans just can help it...

In Reply to D.Donnell:

Sidi - 5-7-2005 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daniel Donnell
Good evening, gentlemen,
Well, maybe I'm getting cranky in my middle age! :rolleyes:

Hello Daniel,

First I apologize for this somewhat delayed reply, and I thank you for the information you provide us with. I want to say that I never mentioned a word about egyptian politics throughout my posts, and I don't think anyone else has.

Naser's name was mentioned in the context of musical history. So for it's sake let me tell you that the Nationalist era coincided with Riyad Sunbati's golden days. From 1952 onwards, he made some of Umm Kulthum's best romantic, religeous...and patriotic songs. Including his greatest ever composition "Al Atlal".

Before I move on to the shamasa, let me make it clear that I have no specific intentions towards Hamza El Din. If anything I appreciate the care with which -we're told- he treats this instrument, and I do wish him a long prosperous career.

As I've said before the shamasa contains no sign of any dedicatory inscription. I hate to talk about myself, but I must tell you that I speak and write fluent Arabic. I'm also a former student of islamic arts and calligraphy. My instructors were Mr.Aous Al-Ansari, a renowned calligraphist and Mr.Mustafa Mustafa, Dr. Ahmed Mustafa's brother: http://www.thecubeofcubes.com/artist/artist.html.

The bands are written in two styles: "Farisi" for the first 3 bands (outside in) and "Tuluth" for the 4th band where you believe the dedication is. In the inner circle, Abdou Nahat's name is also written in "Tuluth" while the words "and sons" are written in "Farisi". Above them you can read the words "Moutlaq Al Yakkah" again in "Farisi". Maqam "Yakah" is a varient of Rast. "Moutlaq Al Yakah" refers to an open "G" note. The 4th band contains nothing more than maqam names (Rast,Hijaz,Asfahan,Buselik,Husseini,Nikriz...ect) You can ask Jameel for a clear picture of Al Bardezbanian’s oud, where you'll be able to read the same scriptures on the shamsa.

I have an idea about who the elusive prince might be. I know a prince, who came from pre independence Syria. His father was a senior official under Ottoman rule. Every time someone tries to sell an old instrument to a foreigner, they say it must've belonged to him. He settled in Egypt during the Syrian uprising against the French, and later was crowned the King of Oud. His name is Farid El Atrache!

You mention some very interesting facts about the ouds acoustics. I’d like to get back to them as well as your remaining comments soon.

Thank you for this enjoyable correspondence. I also want to thank Jammel for making it happen.

I’ll see you all soon,

-Sidi

Sidi, thank you!

Jameel - 5-7-2005 at 05:17 PM

I want to thank Sidi for his contribution to this thread. As always a wealth of interesting information communicated in a very enjoyable way, including his clever photographic presentations. I think it's high time for a Nahat Museum, at least perhaps an online one. Maybe if I wasn't so busy tinkering with my oud project (among other things) I would start one. Thanks again, Sidi.

P.S. Yet another example of the "maqamat shams"

Dr. Oud - 5-8-2005 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel... I think it's high time for a Nahat Museum, at least perhaps an online one. ...

http://www.droud.com/nahats.htm

Munir - 5-16-2005 at 11:14 PM

Interesting discussion. I hope I can help clarify some of the history related to Hamza's acquisition of his Nahat oud as I was with Hamza at the time he found it. In 1969 Hamza came to Los Angeles to play a week of nightly sets at the Ashgrove, a coffee house that featured folk musicians. I took Hamza to meet a friend and admirer of his music living in Venice, one Bobi Jackson. She told us that she had been admiring an oud at a local guitar shop and took us to see it at McCabe's Guitar Shop in Santa Monica. Hamza, of course, knew immediately what a gem he had stumbled upon. The asking price for the oud was in the neighborhood of $850. While this price was undoubtedly well below its true value even in 1969 dollars, it was still well above the amount that any of us had available at the time. When the owner of the shop learned that it was Hamza El Din who was inquiring about the oud he offered to sell it to him for $375 in cash (the amount he had actually paid for it) plus the gate from two weekend concerts (actually four sets) by Hamza to be scheduled at his shop in subsequent weeks. They regularly held weekend concerts at the shop. I don't know what they took in at those concerts but it undoubtedly covered the $500 needed to meet the asking price. Hamza and I returned the next day with the requisite funds, and Hamza left the shop with the oud.
With that history stated I would like to say that I find all the talk about the obviously low price for the oud somewhat unseemly and certainly misguided. The fact is the oud is extraordinary and perfect enough to be virtually priceless, and the 15,000 Euros paid recently for one like it is also a steal. But the idea that the best place for such a musical instrument is in the hands of whoever can pay the most money for it I find vulgar and shallow. Far more compelling to me is the reality that Allah Almighty intended the oud for Hamza and made it possible for it to reach him, a penniless musician/traveler, through a combination of right people, right place, right time and the charitable good will of shop owner and others.
As regards the oud's earlier history several points need to be made. First, it was made in 1930, the year following Hamza's birth, not 1917. Second, Hamza has no idea about who it may have been made for, who owned it prior to his acquisition, or how it got to California. Daniel, there is no truth to the story you ascribe to Hamza that some Syrian Emir from Ottoman era was the original owner. What Hamza did conjecture was that it probalbly came with a Syrian emigre (not emir), ouds being common cultural and physical baggage of Syrian families migrating to the New World. In any case, it was made after the end of the Ottoman period.
Finally, Sidi, your conjecture that the oud previously was the possession of Qasabji may be true, but the neck of Hamza's oud is certainly different and the shamsiya isn't pictured clearly enough to determine if it is the same as the one in Hamza's oud. A clearer picture would certainly help. One problem I have with the notion is the state of the oud when Hamza found it. The face, neck and body of the oud were covered in years of grime so that literally none of the inlay work was visible. How would this have happened had the oud been in use in the 1950s/1960s?

Dr. Oud - 5-18-2005 at 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jameel...P.S. Yet another example of the "maqamat shams"

Nice Shams, Jameel. Do you have any info about the oud or more pictures of it? Or who has it?

Sidi - 5-21-2005 at 02:00 PM

Hi everyone,

I've had no chance to come back to this thread last week. I hope to comment on Munir's post sometime soon.

Thank you all,

-Sidi