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Another Sound Hole Question

DD - 11-1-2005 at 05:16 PM

I know that there has been talk of this before, especially at Soundholes, An Oud's Moment of Truth, and Sound Holes and Sound; still I'm moved to take another pass from another angle. I'd like to ask:

If we had two ouds that were the same in every way, except that one oud had only one sound hole and the other oud had three (in the usual pattern), what differences might we expect to hear between the two?

From what I've read and thought through so far, I wonder if perhaps the oud with three sound holes might have a slightly brighter tone with more emphasis on overtones, and maybe a little more projection, and perhaps the oud with one sound hole might have a more bassy tone with more emphasis on the fundamentals, maybe a bit more 'laid back' and softer? This is just conjecture on my part; I'd love to hear from people who are experientially more intimate with the matter.

Thank you.

Elie Riachi - 11-1-2005 at 07:29 PM

I agree with your analysis. All things being equal, a soundboard with three holes is lighter than the one with a single hole and lighter tends to favor higher frequencies. Also the holes size have tuning effect on the cavity (bowl), the sizes of three holes combined can be larger the one.

Elie

SamirCanada - 11-2-2005 at 09:33 AM

I dont think it would be possible or practical to build exact same ouds with different number of holes. The reason I think that is because the bracing is what greatly influences the sound and I do think that they require a totally different positioning of braces. So It comes up to being mather of luck and workmanship art from the maker...really since it would be almost impossible to get identicaly sounding ouds. Since all the details that make it vibrate are verry hard to control even down to the way the glue cures and what type of glue is used.
I think what your saying is generaly right but just look at the old Gamil Georges and the older Nahats they had one round sound hole and I think to this day they have the fullest register. Whether its the bass or trebles they sound full all the way. Possibly the age of them could be a factor but when Farid, al-sonbaty and Qasabji were playing them. The ouds werent That old yet.

oudmaker - 11-2-2005 at 11:17 AM

DD
Just close your ouds two small holes with a cardboard and try to compare the sound of same oud with and without small holes and let us know what you have found.
Dincer

DD - 11-2-2005 at 11:19 AM

Thanks for your input, Guys. Good points, Samir. I realize that the matter is far more complicated than that simple question I presented, practically speaking; my hope was to have a theoretical model that might sort of isolate and illustrate the contribution of the one-or-three-soundholes element in the oud's design. It was like saying, "If we had two houses that were identical except that one had an eastern exposure and the other a western exposure, what differences might we expect in temperature and light?" While there would be many factors that an architect would employ and integrate to optimize temperature, light, and other elements, if the client was trying to wrap his mind around one of those factors, eastern/western exposure, or exposure in general, he might mock up this kind of hypothetical illustration as a tool. As you can see, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around sound holes. Every little bit of perspective helps; all your comments are great and appreciated.

Would love to hear about your new Shehata, Samir—one sound hole or three?? :-)

Elie Riachi - 11-2-2005 at 04:47 PM

Now Jameel should be able to comment here since the first oud he made was a single hole and the latest is 3-hole (assuming that structurally everything else about the two fabulous ouds mainly similar, especially the bracing)! What do you think Jameel.

SamirCanada - 11-2-2005 at 06:38 PM

My new oud is made with one sound hole this time.
I have had both types and I think what you say is partially true as far as the difference in sound types but definetly I think the actual volume depends more on the torque the strings have against the face. I will lay down some samples so you can tell me if you can tell the difference in sounds.

Here is a 1 sound hole oud made by Tayyar

SamirCanada - 11-2-2005 at 06:55 PM

this is one of the oud I use to own and it had one soundhole It has a verry deep voice and I would say I think it would have been a good studio instrument since there was close to no buzzing at all when I played it.

SamirCanada - 11-2-2005 at 07:03 PM

This would be my Yammine oud wich has 3 sound holes
But still this is like comparing to house wich dont come from the same part of world and have different windows. I mean its Not like anyones should draw the ultimate conclusions in terms of sound. But if your looking to buy a oud it might help you slightly personaly I find both have there charm and both also need to have the proper mood and atmosphere with the listener.

Elie Riachi - 11-2-2005 at 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SamirCanada
My new oud is made with one sound hole this time.
I have had both types and I think what you say is partially true as far as the difference in sound types but definetly I think the actual volume depends more on the torque the strings have against the face. I will lay down some samples so you can tell me if you can tell the difference in sounds.

Hi Samir,

I am not talking about volume, I am talking about high and low frequencies as in Hertz. And I agree with what you say regarding volume, torque as well as tension would play a main role in volume. I think when it comes to making stringed instruments, soundboards and their bracing are still a little secretive art.

Edit:
Very good playing Samir. The single hole has a deeper sound but not as strong.

The Yamine oud sounded deep still but was also as rich in the higher notes as the low ones and very strong sounding, nicely balanced. It is one of the best I have heard so far aside from a Na7at, provided that the recording environments are equal, which is hard to do. My $0.01.

Elie

Jameel - 11-2-2005 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Now Jameel should be able to comment here since the first oud he made was a single hole and the latest is 3-hole (assuming that structurally everything else about the two fabulous ouds mainly similar, especially the bracing)! What do you think Jameel.

Well, this latest oud was not braced like the first one at all, really. I departed quite a bit from that pattern (Richard's book). The first oud was also much smaller than this one (hard to tell from pics), and it had a Turkish oud scale, 58.5 cm. This one has a 61.5cm scale. I also made the soundboard thicker, and the bracing heavier. The two ouds sound nothing alike, in my opinion. I don't know enough to speculate on the 1 vs. 3 hole comparison. But I do know that Nahats made both quite regularly.

SamirCanada - 11-2-2005 at 08:29 PM

Yah those ouds have nothing in common either so I guess it doesnt make for a proper comparasion. Like the tayyar had a narrow body and wasnt so deep.. but still it sounds the deepest? :shrug:

The scale on the tayyar was the same as a regular Iraqi oud and the yammine is 61 or something like that. Good to hear your take on it too Jameel.
Thanks for your comments about my oud Elie but I dont see the Nahat resemblance. Or else I would definetly not sell it. Well knowing that some Nahats go for 20,000$ Maybe that's what I should ask for it LOL

Anyways I think Jameel's new baby is going to be a nuclear bomb of a oud. But now that we have you here Istaz Jameel. What made you go away from your first oud with the one hole and use the 3 hole sound board? Was it just looks?
Thanks

revaldo29 - 11-2-2005 at 10:45 PM

Samir,

I agree with Elie, your Yammine oud sounds really really good. I mentioned that to you when you posted that video. You'll be very happy with your new shehata too.

Ever since you mentioned tuning the oud down a quarter of a step, I tried it on my shehata. That alone made my oud sond 10x better. Before tuning the strings down, I actually started looking into a second oud. Maybe an Amin or something with a deepr more bassy sound. The sound coming out of my oud was not really the type of sound I was looking for when playing oum kalthoum or imitating a taqassim by el qasabji. The sound was almost too metallic. But now, every stroke of the strings is full of tarab. It sounds so rich and warm. This goes back to what you mentioned about torque. Just lowering the tension by a little made a tremendous difference in the type of sound produced. I wish I had a deascent mic so that I let you guys listen to the difference. But yeah, from the little little knowledge I have about oud structure, there is a lot more than # of sound holes that goes into the type of sound you want. What I don't understand however are arabic ouds with 61 cm string length, one sound hole and a floating bridge. What purpose does the floating bridge serve?

SamirCanada - 11-3-2005 at 04:29 AM

It Also gives you a different sound.
Too many options Iam affraid. I still havent received my strings for the oud I changed from a regular brige to a floating brige oud. I know it sounds much more open now. Its a really nice thing this floating brige it gives you more control I find and I find it easier to play all along the strings. Like with a regular brige I end up playing much closer to the soundhole. I rarely play right next to the brige cuz it seems the strings are under too much tention. Its not the case on floating brige ouds I have played.

Dr. Oud - 11-3-2005 at 08:48 AM

I've heard some sensible and nonsense in these replys, so I'm compelled to add my observations from my experience. I had no teacher or training or book or anything to guide me so I acquired broken ouds - some were Nahats, some Karibyan, some others, and measured everything I could. I found so much variation that I couldn't arrive at a formula for what makes one good and the other not. I've played different Karibyans and these are about as consistent as an oud can get. He had his bowels made in Germany at some lute factory to his specs, so they were all identical. He built every soundboard precisely the same, and still they each sound a little different. There is a qualiity of sound common to all, but each has different characteristics anyway.

As for the 1 or 3 hole question, there's more than holes involved here. The response of the soundboard is altered radically when you cut holes in it, so the bracing will have to be different for each style. The tonal characteristices are the most difficult to predict in structural terms. Certainly the location and size and shape of the braces is critical. Another important consideration is that the oud is made with such delicate structure that the margin for variation is very narrow. With a more robust structure like a guitar, there is more wood to work with to "tune" the sound. Violins are built with extra thickness and carved to produce the best resonance for each violin's structural and indiviual wood characteristics. The best ouds seem to be built teetering on the brink of collapse, and that is where the best sound is it seems.

Jonathan - 11-3-2005 at 10:16 AM

Dr. Oud, your knowledge of the oud is a lot greater than mine, but I just wanted to elaborate on one thing you mentioned. Karibyan did not start having his oud bowls made in Germany until approximately 1971 (as well as the peg boxes). Before that time, I believe, they were made in his shop in Istanbul. He died in the mid 1970s (1976?), so it is a relatively short period that this occured in. Some luthiers and players note a drop in the quality of his ouds at that time, although I know of a few from that era that sound superb.

Elie Riachi - 11-3-2005 at 10:59 AM

Looking at the soundboard from a different angle:

It is natural that larger surfaces have Lower natural frequencies than smaller surfaces. I think of the 3-hole board as being of a smaller surface area than the single hole since more surface has been removed with the 3-hole, hence favoring higher natural frequencies, provided that all other things are equal (which is hypothetical.)

Dr. Oud - 11-3-2005 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
Dr. Oud, your knowledge of the oud is a lot greater than mine, but I just wanted to elaborate on one thing you mentioned. Karibyan did not start having his oud bowls made in Germany until approximately 1971 (as well as the peg boxes). Before that time, I believe, they were made in his shop in Istanbul. He died in the mid 1970s (1976?), so it is a relatively short period that this occured in. Some luthiers and players note a drop in the quality of his ouds at that time, although I know of a few from that era that sound superb.

Johnathan - Don't confuse building experience with historical knowledge - I defer knowledge of Karibyans to yourself, but John B. mentioned the German thing and I didn't know what the details of that outsourcing was. Thanks for enlightening me.
Elie - As to the larger/smaller surface natural frequency thing, yea, ok, but when you put a brace across the surface you interrupt the waveform and create a nodal point, no? So a 1 holer can have fewer braces, or at least a different pattern than when you cut the additional holes, which dictates at least one brace placement. We're dealing with interrupted surfaces here after all. Anyway, I maintain that in the case of ouds, there is no such thing as "all other things being equal". That's my story and I stickin' to it.

Jonathan - 11-3-2005 at 03:13 PM

I am definitely not an expert on it, I just try to pick up info where I can find it. John B is really the expert.
Thanks for all the info. I am enjoying this thread.

Elie Riachi - 11-3-2005 at 04:01 PM

I agree Doc. I am only talking in the case of the hypothetical situation which was proposed and started this thread.

I didn't think that the brace positions would have to be different based on the number of holes. But even in this case (I am thinking out loud here,) in the case of the 3-holer, wouldn't that force some braces be positioned closer to each other, leading to shorter separation between some nodes and therefore a natural bias to the shorter wavelength or higher frequencies?

Not saying that a 3-holer cannot be forced to tone down the higher frequencies if desired, but is there an advantage there?

This is very interesting and I am glad it is being discussed. Eager to explore.

DD - 11-3-2005 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Oud

As for the 1 or 3 hole question, there's more than holes involved here. The response of the soundboard is altered radically when you cut holes in it, so the bracing will have to be different for each style. The tonal characteristices are the most difficult to predict in structural terms. Certainly the location and size and shape of the braces is critical. Another important consideration is that the oud is made with such delicate structure that the margin for variation is very narrow. With a more robust structure like a guitar, there is more wood to work with to "tune" the sound. Violins are built with extra thickness and carved to produce the best resonance for each violin's structural and indiviual wood characteristics. The best ouds seem to be built teetering on the brink of collapse, and that is where the best sound is it seems.

Yes, more than holes, and doubtless more subtlety involved with the holes themselves than we might be able to discuss in concrete terms.

Thinking of all that I've read here and of my own experience with master craftsmen, I can't help but imagine what we might hear if we could magically ask a member of the Nahat family what made him choose to configure a particular oud in the three-hole pattern. While we might hear about the characteristics of the particular soundboard wood he'd chosen and how thick he planned to make it, and about the wood and pattern he would be using for the bracing and so on, at the same time I would not be surprised to hear more subtle and/or poetic reasons having to do with the sound of the wood when he tapped it or the overall feeling of this particular oud—or that he didn't know why he had made that choice, but he knew that it was the right choice.

While master craftsmen always seem to know just what to do, they don't always know just why. After all, a major part of their very mastery of the craft is intuitive—we might even say instinctive, especially if they're from a long family line!—and with those subtle perceptive faculties, it seems that sometimes "knowing why," because it can be a stepped-down and incomplete version of the whole story, gets in the way and is as much a hindrance as a help. That intuitive side of the work is one of those areas where the best way to get what we want from the artist-craftsman is to make our suggestions and then to step far enough back for him to employ the secrets that only he can know and to work the magic that only he can work.

Dr. Oud - 11-4-2005 at 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
I agree Doc. I am only talking in the case of the hypothetical situation which was proposed and started this thread.

I didn't think that the brace positions would have to be different based on the number of holes. But even in this case (I am thinking out loud here,) in the case of the 3-holer, wouldn't that force some braces be positioned closer to each other, leading to shorter separation between some nodes and therefore a natural bias to the shorter wavelength or higher frequencies?

Not saying that a 3-holer cannot be forced to tone down the higher frequencies if desired, but is there an advantage there?

This is very interesting and I am glad it is being discussed. Eager to explore.

OK, but I don't know how to make a hypothetical oud to analyize the results. So if the discussion is only in theroretical terms I'll step aside and let you rocket scientists work it out.

Concerning the brace positions, they don't have to be different, certainly, but the holes do require a brace under them to support the holey soundboard, now interrupted and reduced in area by said holes.

Something I haven't heard discussed is the Helmholtz effect, which is to say , ahem.. Air is pumped in and out of the body by the vibrating soundboard. With one hole, the soundwave being reflected out from the body is affected by this pumping action. By adding another hole or holes, this affect is nullified. The guitar builders are just recently discovering this (although Ovation did it years ago), and some are adding holes in the side facing the player to enhance his liistening pleasure.

DD - 11-4-2005 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Oud
OK, but I don't know how to make a hypothetical oud to analyize the results. So if the discussion is only in theroretical terms I'll step aside and let you rocket scientists work it out.

Concerning the brace positions, they don't have to be different, certainly, but the holes do require a brace under them to support the holey soundboard, now interrupted and reduced in area by said holes.

Something I haven't heard discussed is the Helmholtz effect, which is to say , ahem.. Air is pumped in and out of the body by the vibrating soundboard. With one hole, the soundwave being reflected out from the body is affected by this pumping action. By adding another hole or holes, this affect is nullified. The guitar builders are just recently discovering this (although Ovation did it years ago), and some are adding holes in the side facing the player to enhance his liistening pleasure.

Your eminently and elegantly practical orientation is the sort of thing that keeps the theory in touch with the reality that it's about. Your input is invaluable; I think we all appreciate your not stepping aside. :-)

How Does a Guitar Work? is a nice little article with valuable links Re Helmholtz resonance and relevant related stuff.

Thank you Elie and Richard for sticking with it.

Elie Riachi - 11-4-2005 at 04:34 PM

Thanks for the link DD. I remember running across this interesting site in the past. According to the Helmholtz effect equation, the frequency increases (high pitch) as the size of the hole increases or the volume of the body gets smaller. So to emphasize lower frequencies (bass) one would reduce hole size or increase cavity (bowl) volume. It also gets more complicated if the holes are different shapes. Interesting.

Doc, I do not know about DD, but I am a rocket scientist

DD - 11-4-2005 at 05:01 PM

Uh-Oh!

DD - 11-6-2005 at 06:57 PM

SOooo..

On account of the phenomenon known as the Helmholtz resonance, the bowl of the oud has its own specific note, a specific frequency at which the air inside the bowl vibrates. The pitch or note of this resonance is determined by the size of the bowl relative to the size of the sound hole. As Elie mentioned, if we increase the size of the bowl while keeping the size of the hole the same, this frequency will be lower; the same thing will be true if we keep the bowl size the same but decrease the hole size: IOW, the larger the bowl and/or the smaller the hole, the lower the resonant frequency (more bass). For a higher resonant frequency, we go in the opposite direction: the smaller the bowl and/or the larger the hole, the higher the resonant frequency.

On a guitar, the bowl/hole size ratio is usually designed so that this resonant frequency falls somewhere between the notes of the quitar's two lowest open strings (E2 and A2); usually if you sing F#2 into the sound hole, or even pluck the open A string, you can hear the air inside the guitar body resonating. I don't know what the different ouds' resonant frequencie are usually intended to be; that is an important question. I guess we just have to sing to them and see if they'll answer us!

Well, I just read the above to my wife, who was sitting next to my three-holed oud, and as I was about to comment, she picked it up and started singing into the main sound hole—then she jumped in her seat when the oud suddenly sang back to her. D4. I could hear the resonance clearly from where I was sitting at my computer across the room; actually, I think I felt it tactilely almost as much as I heard it. I asked her to try D3, which is about the lowest pitch that she can hit, and the resonance was much stronger. I tried it, and I could feel the entire bowl vibrating strongly. D2 and D4 resonated about the same as each other and about half as much as D3, the strongest of any; next in line in strength of resonance was G3. There were other definite resonances, too, but none of them as strong as those I've just mentioned. Now remember, this is a three-hole oud. We covered the two smaller holes and tried again. A3. Same whole story as before, a 4th lower. (There are no strings to pluck just now, because I'm about to attempt a touch-up job on the pitted line left from the break in the pegbox/neck joint.)

Now all of this brings me to the two main questions I have right now:

1. Exactly how does this resonant frequency effect the whole spectrum of notes that we play on the oud? It would seem to me that every single note we play would be effected to some extent, since in a way that frequency is going on all the time we're playing, like a drone, to a greater and lesser extent depending on how, and how closely, the notes we're playing are related to it—e.g. that note itself, its octaves, its third, fourth, or fifth and their octaves, simultaneous notes whose combined overtones are any of these.... It makes me think of the instrument as having a sort of sonic personality, expressing itself especially with certain tunings, maqamat, and so on.

It seems that in the case of the guitar, the main intention with the tuning of the resonant frequency is to enhance bass response. In an article entitled Side Located Soundholes and Ports—Theory and Execution, a luthier named Ray Whitaker explains a lot about the effect of different sound hole configurations on guitar sonics, especially in the context of describing his "adjustable port" design: a sound hole in the top side of the guitar (in addition to the main hole–which is also in the side!), which has a little sliding door over it that the player can adjust to suit the music he wishes to play, making the hole smaller to emphasize more bass, larger for more clarity and definition in the midrange, and so on. Now this brings me to my second main current question:

2. How does having three sound holes, of two different sizes, change the nature and behavior of this resonant frequency? I know that, as Dr. Oud mentioned, some sources indicated that having three holes nullified the Helmholtz effect, but I've read a number of descriptions of guitars with more than one sound hole of different sizes, and these descriptions took it for granted that the Helmholtz effect was functioning normally with these designs.

An interesting example, in addition to the one I mentioned above, is the Fleishman Instruments Harp Guitar (scroll down to the second one), which has two holes of two slightly different size. The luthier, Harry Fleishman, says that the combined sizes of the two holes add up to a normal-hole size with an emphasis on bass response, but uniquely, that the bass is very clear, not "boomy," and that because each hole has its own lower resonance than the combined holes' resonance, and each hole is a different size, the bass emphasis levels off smoothly rather than having a sharp response peak.

It would seem that something of this nature might be true of the three-holed oud; though, at least with mine, it would seem to be the midrange, not the base, that is being emphasized. I wonder if others' ouds "sing back" at lower frequencies?

OK, old wind bag here is going to quiet down for a while.
My very best to all,
Don

DD - 11-8-2005 at 11:56 AM

As I was just telling Samir(Canada), I've been wondering how singing into the oud would sound and feel if the strings were on, since I never did that (I'll have my strings back on in a few days). With them off, the resonant frequency is really strong and obvious - it can't be missed; you just sing sort of like a siren up and down, then suddenly the oud practically jumps in your hands and 'sings back' when you hit the resonant note.

After I found the resonant note, I tried its octaves, fifths, fourths, and thirds, and found some response with all of them, but with most notes other than those, the bowl was more or less quiet and still. The fascinating thing is that once I had done that myself, I could hear it easily from across the room when my wife did it; I new what I was hearing then, and it was easy to tell, from the quality as well as the strength of the tone, when the pitch she was singing was at or near a resonance. The tone quality was richer in overtones and the timbre was more complex.

It would seem that in addition to the Helmholtz resonant frequency of the air inside the bowl, there would be two other main sources of resonance: the bowl itself and the soundboard. AFAIK, each of these will also have a specific note or set of notes that will resonate with similar and related notes being played on the strings, the resonance making the strings' notes louder, fuller, and more complex.

This phenomenon is considered a highly desirable and important element in musical instrument design (just the opposite of loudspeaker design for your sound system, where the object is for the speaker to "sing along" as little as possible, preferably not at all, so that you get an accurate reproduction of the original music). Violins especially, from what I've gathered so far, are constructed to produce powerful and refined resonance, and diversity of resonance, from the face, back, and sides as well as from the air inside the body. The violin's resonances are so many and so varied that when the musician plays vibrato, often the different pitches that the vibrato spans are also different resonances! Apparently this is one of the main elements that gives the violin its special character among musical instruments.

The way that these different parts of an instrument vibrate makes a big difference in the sound, and that will definitely be one of the main ways that our hypothetical three-holed oud differs from our hypothetical one-holed oud: The three-holed oud's soundboard ('all else being equal' in this theoretical case) should vibrate more freely and on account of its lower mass, and coupled with the fact that the three holes provide less resistance to the flow of air in and out of the bowl, this should result in more volume and projection of the sound.

So I think that we can be more or less certain at this point that the hypothetical three-holed oud will have 1) a higher-pitched resonant frequency both of the air inside the bowl and of the soundboard (larger-area soundhole and smaller-area soundboard); and 2) more volume and projection (less resistance and lighter mass providing both freer airflow and freer vibration). The hypothetical one-holed oud should be a more bassy, quieter instrument.

It's quite possible also that the two instruments will differ in a third main way, but that so many other design elements figure in and overlap that it's almost completely irrelevant. This third difference might be in timbre: It could be that the three-holed oud will provide more diversity of resonant frequencies from the air inside the bowl. If what Dr. Oud's source said of the Helmholtz resonance applies to the oud, and/or if what the luthier I mentioned earlier said about the harp guitar's two unequal holes apply's to the oud's unequal holes, then this difference would certainly be a possibility: The three-holed oud might be richer in overtones, and the one-hole oud might be richer in fundamentals. I would think, though, that the more important factors are the resonant pitch and the volume/projection.

BTW Elie, didn't you say in one of those earlier threads that you thought your oud might resonate at F? I wonder whether it resonates more strongly (independently of the strings) at F3 than at the string's F2, as mine does at D3? Anyway...

Have you hugged your oud today and sung to it? :-) Anybody else?

Dr. Oud - 11-8-2005 at 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Doc, I do not know about DD, but I am a rocket scientist

Well, Mr. Science, if you're launching your rocket from that position, be sure to alert the local fire department first.

Dr. Oud - 11-8-2005 at 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DD...Have you hugged your oud today and sung to it? :-) Anybody else?

I hug my ouds every day, and all of them equally so none get jealous. I will start singing into them as well as of singing with them and see what happens. I have learned quite a bit from your explanation and appreciate the insight. I was laboring under the impression (mis-guided it seems) that the air pump was interfering with the sound wave, while it is actually enhancing it at those resonant frequencies. duh! I shall endeavor to function more competently in the future. :shrug:

Elie Riachi - 11-8-2005 at 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Oud

Quote:

Originally posted by Elie Riachi
Doc, I do not know about DD, but I am a rocket scientist

Well, Mr. Science, if you're launching your rocket from that position, be sure to alert the local fire department first.

Good one Doc

. But joking aside, this is the prep position before launch. And we actually have to inform the FAA before launching these little monsters. Unfortunately, sometimes they come down whistling in this position and in that case they are called core samplers

Elie Riachi - 11-8-2005 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DD

BTW Elie, didn't you say in one of those earlier threads that you thought your oud might resonate at F? I wonder whether it resonates more strongly (independently of the strings) at F3 than at the string's F2, as mine does at D3? Anyway...

Have you hugged your oud today and sung to it? :-) Anybody else?

Don,

Thank you for bringing this topic up. It is very interesting and logical to me.

My singing voice is not the best way for me to check the biased resonance frequency of my oud. Here is what I did: I set the chromatic tuner on the soundboard and near the bridge. Then I had the tuner GENERATE the different notes in the scale and found that the oud started to ring like a bell when the tunner hit B. It did the same at F also but not as clear and loud as the B.

As for hugging my oud, unlike the Doc, I do not have a harem of them and I only have one and at the moment it is a love hate relationship with this particular oud. I may have a different oud soon and this one will become a wall hanger.

Elie Riachi - 11-8-2005 at 08:29 PM

Doc, I am still laughing at your joke, good one.

billkilpatrick - 11-10-2005 at 10:43 AM

ready? ...

i once saw an interview with a jazz percussionist from brazil who was said to be somewhat unconventional in his choice of instruments. when he was asked if he could make music with anything, the musician asked the reporter to lean forward slightly, open his mouth while he proceeded to thump out a hollow sounding rhythm on the reporter's back.

when he was finished he announced to the reporter that he was in the key of "e."

now perhaps ... i mean ... who knows ... but if all the reporter's orifices were open and resonating nicely, he could have ... you know ... he might have produced a different note.

- bill