Farahfaza vs. G Minor

My understanding of FerahFaza is that there is emphasis on the Ajam trichord on Bb.

Here is a translation of the description of FerahFaza from Sami Al-Shawwa's book,

Maqam Notes
- Ascending: Yekah (G), Ushairan (A), Ajam Ushairan (Bb), Rast (C), Dokah (D), Kurdi (Eb), Jaharkah (F), Nawa (G).

- Descending: Nawa (G), Hijaz (F#), Kurdi (Eb), Dokah (D), Rast (C), Ajam Ushairan (Bb), Ushairan (A), Yekah (G)

Rules:
This maqam begins on the Nawa sound to Husseiny and Ajam up to Muhayyar going up and down once and again going back to Nawa, then descending to Yekah making sure to touch on the lower Qarar Hijaz and ending in Yekah.

Analysis:
First: Nahawand tetrachord From Rast (C) to Yekah (G)
Second: Ajam Ushairan Pentachord from Jaharkah descending to Ajam Ushairan.

Then comes a part that I can't understand, its confusing me a bit. I will write down in Arabic and hopefully someone more proficient with music can translate and explain.

مقالم الفرحفزا
صعودا: يكاه عشيران عجم عشيران راست دوكاه كوردي جهاركاه نواه
هبوطا: نواه حجاز كوردي دوكاه راست عجم عشيران عشيران يكاه

شروطه:
هذاه المقام يبدا من صوت النواه الى الحسيني والعجم لغاية المحير مرارا صعودا وهبوطا ثم يعود من النواه هبوطا لغاية صوت اليكاه مع مس عربة قرار الحجاز وينتهي قراره على صوت اليكاه.

تحليله:
اولا: (جنس نهاوند من صوت الراست الى صوت اليكاه
ثانيا: (عقد نغم عجم عشيران من الجهاركاه هبوطا الى صوت العجم عشيران: ثم (جنس نغم جهاركاه على صوت الجهاركاه ويتخلل هذا الجنس الأخير والعقد الذي قبله جمع متصل وهو صوت الجهاركاه.

Thanks

FF,
The last part in Arabic is a bit ambiguous.. but it says there is a Jiharkah jens on F.. and it has a common note with the 3ajam jens which is F.. I think it's like a pivot note. Not sure about it.. it's not much clear.

But about the book.. who is Sami AlShawwa? And where did you get it from?

In Turkish theory, and originally in Arab theory also, a maqam NEVER has the same seyir when it is transposed... in fact the concept of the "transposed maqam" is a misnomer.

This is another example of how the modern simplification has damaged the music.

For example:
Hicazkar, ChedAraban, Suzidil, and many others all have the same scale but different tonics... AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SEYIR.

However, if my understanding is correct, you can transpose a maqam (including it's unique individual seyir - that all named maqams have) simply by playing that maqam in ANOTHER TUNING, for example BOLAHANK, KIZNEY, MUSTAHZEN, YILDIZ, SUPERDE, MANSUR... etc. My understanding is that if you play Nihavent from any of these tunings, the tonic will change but the seyir will remain uniquely nihavent.

But this is a different thing then playing Farafeza, even though it "looks like" nahawand from a different note... Farafeza is a different maqam with a unique seyir of it's own - - - that is why it is Farafeza)

FF.. Thanks

Just to translate some of what is wrote in arabic in the first few lines:

- Farahfaza is wrongly named Nahawand on G although it has the same notes
- It has a unique character and sayr that is totally different than those of Nahawand


FF.. could you please tell us about that book? Where did you get this picture from?

This is the translation of what in that book
why calling nahawand on different notes if nahwand is only played from C
so in the farahfaza you have jins nahawand ?

Ok great. I totally agree.. sure it's a clearer explanation
The key sentence: for every NAMED maqam there is a unique sayr. 100%

Anyone has a good reference describing the sayr of each maqam?

from
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/makamlar.html
we read the definition of seyir:
---------------------------------------------
Each makam has its own particular progression or seyir which governs its performance. The seyir has a beginning, middle and end, as well as points of rest centred around particular notes along the way. These important notes include the karar or durak (tonic/final), the tiz durak (an octave above the tonic), the guclu (dominant), the giris (entry note), and muvakkat kalislar (temporary stopping points). A number of other tones are also important in shaping the particular flavour of the makam and function as additional 'stopping points': the yeden (leading tone) and the asma karar (suspended cadence). These are very important tones and convey a feeling of expectation. Another key feature of a particular makam is the melodic direction of its seyir, which is determined by the relative position of the giris and the qarar. The three different types of melodic direction are ascending (cikici), descending (inici) and ascending-descending (inici-cikici). In an ascending seyir the melody starts around the karar, moves up to the guclu and then returns to the karar again. In a descending seyir the melody starts around the tiz durak, and then descends via the guclu to the karar. Finally, in an ascending-descending seyir the melody starts around the guclu, moves above and below this note before returning to it, and then descends to the karar.
----------------------------

So the melodic progression should be defined in each makam? it should be structured? studied? no more freedom in takasim?
I am totally against the seyir concept except if one want to learn how to play a makam. Afterward everyone should do his own seyir otherwise we all would sound the same when playing.

...if you want my opinion more precisely, I think that it depends on what you CALL what you are playing... I think if you CALL it ferafeza makam taksim, then you better know what the accepted traditional seyir is, and respect this. This does NOT mean that you are "trapped" inside ridged rules. It just means that you respect the 'boundaries' of that maqam - - - same if I go to your house for dinner, I am not going to just walk into your sisters bedroom. I know where my place is, and I follow the rules of your house, and in the meantime tell as many good stories and funny jokes as i can think of, and we all will have a good time.

---if you want to do something totally different and not follow any seyir this is totally cool... but don't call it ferafeza or any other traditional makam.

you see the difference?

I agree with your point here Edward - explore and develop your own style, and to that as usta Duke Ellington remarked: it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing'

Go wild in G minor, its a great key on the oud espscially 5 course (F A d g c), It expresses the natural depth of the Arabic oud with so many possibilities in the lower register. C.

and also G major b7th: (G A B C d e f g). Hear them bass's sing!!!

Maqam Rock'em

by the way, has that ever been done? Hendrix stuff on FUZZED oud???

)

If I had an electric oud I would give it try, if only to hear what it sounds and feels like

Khamaj, JhinJhoti, Gawati, Kalavati, JansanMohini...

funny thing tho is that RAGA Khamaj actually uses B more than Bb!

music is always full of paradox - - - just like LIFE!
as soon as it is predictable - it is dead

Thanks Adam
That's some nice info I wanted to hear.
Any recording of a Farahfaza taqsim?

Quote:

Originally posted by Reda Aouad Thanks Adam That's some nice info I wanted to hear. Any recording of a Farahfaza taqsim?

Hi Kata

First of all, for an Arab oriented musician to understand what is going on in this ney taksim it is necessary to know about the different transposed tunings - and second, to know about AcemAsirani makami.

On the ney clip it says at the top of the page that this is played in KIZ NEY (tuning). This means that the written note C is played as an A. However (and the third thing you must know about Turkish music), RAST DOES NOT START FROM DO--- IT STARTS FROM SOL.

So... as Adam says, what you have going on at first is:
-Acem Asiran makami
-played in KIZNEY tuning
-written in Turkish orientation (RAST - NAHAWAND - NIKRIZ... all starting from SOL ----- BAYATI - HICAZ - starting from LA.... etc.

To make things really simple to understand, AcemAsiran is sort of like just a major scale with the tonic F (in Turkish), Si flat (in Arab). BUT Acem note is the octave of this scale and that octave note is the central note of this makam... everything in the beginning revolves around the acem note.

Ok, now that I am analyzing this more closely he is actually playing in BOLAHANK tuning, not KIZNEY. Bolahank means that C written is played as D.

Kata when you say you are hearing an Eminor, actually what you are hearing is G major. (very close, E is the relative minor of G - and the written key signature is the same). In Turkish music AcemAsiran is basically an F major centered around the octave... so if you play this in BOLAHANK it will be G major ------- and E is the relative minor so this is why you are reading it like Dminor and hearing it like Eminor (which is actually G major).

Make sense?

)

...Ok, I got it figured out and clarified.

My confusion was a result actually of having a mistake in my notes about the tunings.

So, yes in fact, as it is stated - this taksim is being played in KIZNEY... and it is written in TURKISH NOTATION MEANING THAT RAST STARTS FROM SOL, AND BAYATI STARTS IN LA and so on.

I had written in my notes that in Turkish tuning if you PLAY one whole tone higher than what is written then you are in bolahank - - - this is wrong... it should be KIZNEY tuning (as is the example).

So, why is this confusing?

The reason is that only considering the written page, ARABS WRITE RAST AS STARTING FROM DO - AND TURKS WRITE RAST AS STARTING FROM SOL.... this is how the music is written!

- - -

Now, this is where it gets really confusing, and I will explain it the best I can - - - if I am wrong please correct me immediately

There are TWO THINGS we need to consider when trying to understand the relationship between the written notes and the played notes in both Arab and Turkish musics. One of these things IS CONSTANT between the two musics, and the other thing IS NOT CONSTANT.

The thing which is CONSTANT (meaning the SAME in both systems), is the PLAYED NOTES IN THE VARIOUS TRANSPOSED TUNINGS, for example;

1. First of all- ALL the notes in the makam system have oriental names.
-Rast makam starts with Rast note
-Nahawand/nihavent start on Rast note
-many makams start on Dugah note: bayati, hicaz, ussak, buselik... etc
-etc etc ---once you CHOOSE your starting point in the system, then ALL the makams will keep their proper place... for example if I choose to play A (la) as the RAST NOTE, then bayati will start on B (si)... etc etc understood?

So, let us for the sake of convenience choose one note as representing the RAST NOTE in the most "natural" way. Let us say that the most natural note to represent the RAST NOTE is C (do).
According the this choice, then when you write music in the ARAB system, then the note which is written is exactly the REAL ACTUAL NOTE THAT IS PLAYED, BECAUSE IN THE ARAB SYSTEM THE "RAST" NOTE IS WRITTEN AS C (do).

these are the different names for some of the transposed tunings:
RAST NOTE = do = SUPERDE tuning
RAST NOTE = re = BOLAHANK tuning
RAST NOTE = sol = MANSUR tuning
RAST NOTE = la = KIZNEY tuning
RAST NOTE = si = MUSTAZEN tuning

...this is the same in both Arab and Turk systems


2. What is NOT constant and the same in both systems (arab/turk) is how the music is written. Arabs consider the RAST NOTE to be C (do), and Turks consider the RAST note to be G (sol) in the way of writing. Therefore when you see makam Rast written in Turkish music, the first note of makam Rast (the rast note) will be written as SOL! ...but in Arab notation the rast note is written as DO!

- - -

Now, in writing all of this out like this, I have had to really confirm all of it in my own mind, and it has been confusing ------ but now I know the reason - the exact reason WHY IT HAS BEEN SO CONFUSING for me.

The reason is because in my descriptions of the transposed tuning system I was using the Western note names NOT THE ORIENTAL NAMES... and THIS is what caused all the confusion. I had in my notes that:
Do played as Do = superde tuning (arab notation)
....but I also had it in my notes
Do played as Do = mansur tuning (turk notation)

See how confusing this is!!!!!?

The solution is this:
RAST NOTE played as Do = superde tuning
RAST NOTE played as Sol = mansur tuning

....the moral of the story is this:
1. WHENEVER TALKING ABOUT A NOTE IN A MAKAM ALWAYS USE THE ORIENTAL NAME, not the Western name... or you will get confused
2. Whenever you are talking about the "pitch" (in terms of frequency A=440 etc) of a note, then use the Western name: La = A etc

So I understand that you mean the following:

Turkish Rast (SOL) played as LA is Kizney tuning?
(Which is the case of the Ferahfaza taqsim example since it sounds one note higher)


Now that's what I call confusing!

But thanks for the good ( though a bit messy ) explanation..

Quote:

Originally posted by Reda Aouad So I understand that you mean the following: Turkish Rast (SOL) played as LA is Kizney tuning? (Which is the case of the Ferahfaza taqsim example since it sounds one note higher) Now that's what I call confusing! But thanks for the good ( though a bit messy ) explanation..

First of all, I am struggling to learn all of this just like you. I can tell you what Mohammed Antar has been telling me recently. He says that essential the Arab/Turkish makam/maqam system is the same thing... meaning that in the OTTOMAN times this was all one country and a certain standardisation was reached. However, after the Ottomans left, the two peoples altered their musics slightly - intonations changed slightly, and as a result of various music conferences several new NORMS were adopted - - resulting now in what looks like two different systems: Turk and Arabic.

Try to go back a bit and realise that they come from the same thing. This really helps to understand both.

Antar was telling me that Arab's have different names for some of the transposed tunings - for example Kiz is called HARIMI in Arabic (if I am correct).

Turkish written SOL played as LA is always KIZ. But don't forget that in Turkish writing SOL represents the RAST NOTE. ...and in Arab writing the RAST NOTE is written as DO.

Forget totally about what you want to CALL the Rast note. RAST NOTE IS RAST NOTE. It is as simple as that. When you think about the RAST NOTE, you are just identifying the note that you will start rast makam with, and from there you will orient yourself to FIND the starting notes for all the other makams... Bayati and Hicaz start from one whole tone higher than Rast Note.

So, you have a TOTAL MAKAM SYSTEM, and once you start one makam in one place, then you must play all the other makams in a position that corresponds correctly to where you started. If you shift the starting point of makam rast, then you also must shift the starting point, to the same degree, of all other makams.

If you start makam rast on Do, then you can not also start bayati on Do and call it bayati. You NEVER CHANGE TRANSPOSITION SYSTEM in the middle of a piece, or taksim. Once you start in one tuning, you are FIXED there till then end of the piece.

So forget about what note you will CALL rast... but be concerned with what note you choose to PLAY as Rast note. If you choose to play Rast note as La, then you are now playing in transposition Kiz (OR Harimi, in Arabic).

- - -

unless you only intend to play solo oud all the time, it is important to get beyond the idea that some microtones a the difficult ones... etc as Adam was suggesting we need to be able to play all makams in all possible keys if we want to play with singers etc.

But of course nobody is going to play solo oud in YILDIZ tuning! )

mmmm.. ok got ur idea..

As for transposing freely on the oud.. it is really much more difficult than guitar or piano for example. Of course we make every effort to improve such skill.. but did you ever hear of Rast on Si half-sharp? Rast is most commonly played on Do, Re, Fa, Sol, La, Sib. These are the only tonics for the compositions I have seen in Rast, even tough rarely enough.

Anyways.. I don't want to deviate much from the subject.. Thanks for the info

Quote:

Originally posted by Reda Aouad mmmm.. ok got ur idea.. As for transposing freely on the oud.. it is really much more difficult than guitar or piano for example. Of course we make every effort to improve such skill.. but did you ever hear of Rast on Si half-sharp? Rast is most commonly played on Do, Re, Fa, Sol, La, Sib. These are the only tonics for the compositions I have seen in Rast, even tough rarely enough. Anyways.. I don't want to deviate much from the subject.. Thanks for the info

Dont mind if I get "picky" because I find that exploring these concepts in detail really helps me to understand.

I would the note Si half flat does not actually exist. Anyway, there are NO transpositions that would make RAST NOTE be played starting from one of the "half-flat" notes.

I think this concept of the "half-flat" note needs to be examined more closely, in our efforts to get to the CRUX of all of this.

I know what you meant however - but again, I feel that our understanding can improve if we use the approapriate terms in the proper place.

For example, what I was suggesting previously is to use the oriental note names when refering to a makam note, and the western names when refering to an actual played note.

So perhaps this question would be better understood and have a more exact meaning if we would say SEGAH (SIKAH) NOTE, instead of Si half-flat.

Half-flat is a very inaccurate and misleading term...

I'll try my best to use the proper terms. You are totally right about half flats and sharps which are only simplifications to the theory, but it is the easiest way to express the notes you hear, since I will definitely never remember that what you hear as C# is called "Zirkula", or F half-sharp as "Nim Hijaz", or B half-sharp as "Tik Kawasht" - I had to reopen my books for that!


1. I asked about Si half-sharp and not half-flat.

2. Segah is Mi half-flat and not Si half-flat Si half-flat is Iraq in the lower register and Awj at the octave above. But never mind I know they are a bit confusing.. I got your point, although we are using western names and half accidentals to simplify our understanding.

3. I don't see why theoretically, there is no transposition of a Rast composition from Rast (Do) to Segah for example. Rast on Segah would be:

Segah - Nim Hijaz - Nawa - Tik Hisar - Awj - Nim Shahnaz - Muhayyar - Buzrak

which is somewhat easily fingered and playable on an oud (seriously) and would match a slightly higher voice range.