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Building my first oud

GUY - 9-15-2009 at 12:21 AM

hello every oud builders,
After reading and reading again all the topics of this forum ,I took the decision to build an oud ,following the instruction of Dr oud's book and the experience of Jameel .
I did not dare to build with an open form ,so I build a mould in order to have a control of the volume .I have wood working experiences but compared to Dr oud and Jameel mines look like those of a carpenter !I do not intend to describe of the phases which are common to the realisations already presented in this forum , but I just want to share new tips I experimented and have comments wether I am in the wrong or good track. I will try to keep informed of the progress and send some pictures

GUY - 9-15-2009 at 01:01 AM

I used tapes for the first ribs but noticed that the tension relaxed after ten minutes causing some gaps .So I took advantage of the moulde by using wedges to clamp the ribs .
see picture

GUY - 9-15-2009 at 01:10 AM

simple bending iron but it works

GUY - 9-15-2009 at 01:19 AM

Back finished ,hum...not perfect but it the first shot!

Dr. Oud - 9-15-2009 at 08:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by GUY

I used tapes for the first ribs but noticed that the tension relaxed after ten minutes causing some gaps .So I took advantage of the moulde by using wedges to clamp the ribs .
see picture

On your next oud take the time to fine tune the fit of the ribs. Forcing them together will create inherent stress in the back and this can lead to cracks and seam splits in the future, even with only a slight bump. - Nice job in any case.

sabbassi - 9-15-2009 at 10:44 AM

And only at a 100% flat sides of both ribs you can get a fine join. Flating the ribs is one of the secrest you would like to master, because when they are both flat, a masking tape is enouph to join the ribs wihtout stress.
Good luck and keep up the good work

theodoropoulos - 9-15-2009 at 11:42 AM

as far my expierence concerns the first rib (mother rib) is very critical to be putted without stress at the edges.It must be similar as it was laying on the table and flattened 100% on the table.Putting a small force and twisting it,must be corrected in the exact next ribs because as the ribs incresse the stress increases and perhaps the bowl will never be finished.
the ideal is to match the ribs without even a tape just by a small touch..It will never break in the future..But i repeat ...in order to have the last ribs identical the EXCELLENT FLATTENED MOTHER RIB MUST BE PUTTED WITH THE MINIMUM TWIST OF THE THE EDGES...

Nice work

Yaron Naor - 9-15-2009 at 10:42 PM

Good luck!

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 07:06 AM

thanks for your comments. I think next time I will try the open form ,although the wedges I used on the mould did not force the ribs but just maintain them in place .Anyway there is way for improvement...
Now I am trying the inlays .For the back I used a piece of antler found in the forest (deers loose their antlers every year).As it is harder than wood it was necessary to sand it as thinner as possible before glueing it . I used a piece of wood with the rough shape of the inlay in order to sand it on the "sand board".Some examples on the following pictures

[file]11183[/file]

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 07:09 AM

other pictures

[file]11189[/file]

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 07:13 AM

sanding the inlay

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 07:29 AM

Next task is the bracing .I red many things about the braces but still have concerns about the lateral position to each others after fitting to the back and then transfering to the sound board .Is the center line the only reference ? Is there any tips to secure the locating on the sound board ?

paulO - 9-16-2009 at 07:57 AM

Hi GUY,

Thanks for sharing the project, the bowl has some cool grain, and the tailpiece inlay looks great. Best of luck on the rest.

Regards..Paul

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 08:05 AM

Thanks Paulo

theodoropoulos - 9-16-2009 at 11:32 AM

as far as traditional oud concerns it has 7 braces.The most critical is the one which is placed after the bridge below...in my opinion its has great importance as it determines the "equalizer" it a high degree.
in my researches i will try to learn about the golden rule "φ" which was used in my country Greece in ancient years to build everything in symmetry.perhaps brace's symmetry is behind a great sound.There is not magical recipe,but continious experiments under theory's shadow...But think of symmetry in everything you make...

GUY - 9-16-2009 at 11:09 PM

Thanks for your advice Theodoropoulos.
I am thinking about a jig to transfert the whole braces on the soundboard .But it is not mature at the moment

GUY - 9-21-2009 at 12:08 PM

This is a small device I made to perform good edges for the circular grouves which will receive the inlay.The use of the router for this was not satisfying even with high speed and I use it only to eliminate the material up to half a milimeter to the edges.The rest is eliminated by hand with a chisel whith is an easy task due to the fact that the blade of the device goes 1mm deep

GUY - 9-21-2009 at 12:12 PM

Fist inlays in place .I made an error with the router for the rosace .So it will be a little wider than the original I wanted

GUY - 9-26-2009 at 11:17 AM

In order to size the inlays of the rosace I built a tool made of 4 discs .The first sized of the internal diameter covered with sand paper , the second is used first to sand the inlays to the internal diameter .This disc has 3 positions corresponding to the different width of the inlays and can be clamp for each position with a pin (or a bolt as shown in the picture.

GUY - 9-26-2009 at 11:28 AM

The white disc is shape to the internal diameter and makes possible to keep the right lenght during the external diameter sanding .The forth disc is to maintain the inlay in position. I have the chance to own a turning lathe ,so it was easy to make the discs with acuracy

GUY - 9-26-2009 at 11:31 AM

The result :

aytayfun - 9-26-2009 at 12:35 PM

Well done job. Go on guy.

rotemOr - 9-27-2009 at 05:43 AM

Hey guy

im very interested on building an oud my self
i got "Dr. Oud" book and i keep on reeding everything i can find on this topic
i love your work till now
keep on this way

GUY - 9-27-2009 at 08:53 AM

Hi Aytayfun
Teçekür ederim for your encouragements !

GUY - 9-27-2009 at 11:42 AM

Thanks Rotemor
I follow also Dr oud' book which is my base of building and also the explanations of Jameel. I hesitated a long time before starting my project , but now I realize that is a fantastic experience whatever the result will be .I am not a professional but thanks this forum it is possible to learnt a lot of things .So start your project ,whatever the duration will be ,it is a good exercise for the soul.

GUY - 9-28-2009 at 08:41 AM

Now a long task:cutting the rosace I made a plywood with scraps of the rips (walnut).I tried to cut with the router (Dremel) but it was not easy .I prefer the jeweler saw and the files.

aytayfun - 9-28-2009 at 10:45 AM

Try Manol type rose. Old timers know to use the type of rose. :cool:

GUY - 9-28-2009 at 12:33 PM

What is Manol?

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 12:42 AM

Now I started what I consider as the most critical part of oud building : The braces.
My concerns are reproducing exactly on the sound board the position of the braces as regard the perpendiculatity to the Sboard , the lateral position (any lateral deviation will create a gap on the adjoining brace ).It is not easy to fit each brace on a round part which is not stable on the work bench.Comming from the aeronautic industry I have still the obsession of the reproducibility of a configuration particulary when it must be transfered to a other part .As my skills of luthier are not confirmed I prefered to build a very simple tool which will help me to control the perdicularity during the fitting operation and to copy the position when transfering on the Soundboard.
Two pieces of wood of same width are fixed to the neck and botton blocks , then a wooden straigthtedge is glued at the bottom surface of the both pieces.(This to avoid any deformation of the back)

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 12:51 AM

The two ends of the tool have a pin corresponding to two small holes on the sound board axis (those holes will be covered with an inlay afterwards).

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 01:07 AM

adjusting the braces:
The tool is in place in the back and a straightedge is put on top representing the surface of the Soundboard.A little device (see picture) hold with the hand against the bottom surface of the straightedge during the fitting of the brace, maintains the brace perpenticular to the surface

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 01:38 AM

After fine fitting of the brace with the top ribs , the straightedge is removed , the brace is out of the device and maintained in position with tape.A piece of wood (controlled square ) is glue behind the brace (for perpendicularity) and an other piece of with two screws (not going through at the moment) is glue in front . Now let us wait untill drying .

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 01:51 AM

After the gluing process the boths screws are screwed just to maintain the brace in place (both prints in the brace are less than 1mm and are removed when sanding to the final shape of the brace).Now the jig can be remove from the back and put on the sound board (thanks to the 2 pins) .The jig is used also during the gluing process .

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 02:00 AM

After drying and the jig removed ,the 2 pieces of wood are eliminated( by a light knock with an hammer ) in order to give clearance for the next brace fitting.

My english not being perfect I hope that my explanations of these complexe phases will be understandable.

SamirCanada - 10-3-2009 at 03:47 AM

Good job Guy.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
Merci

GUY - 10-3-2009 at 06:34 AM

Thanks Samir

GUY - 10-6-2009 at 07:51 AM

The braces in place .I hope the jig played his role but confirmation will come only after cutting the edge of the sound board for receiving the edge tiles.

GUY - 10-6-2009 at 07:53 AM

just for the pleasure to see the progress!

Peyman - 10-6-2009 at 11:09 AM

I like your process. The look is very classy and clean.

GUY - 10-7-2009 at 08:47 AM

Thanks for the encouragements Peyman

GUY - 10-7-2009 at 08:57 AM

The rosace is finished and in place .The center is a piece of bone glued on a thin epoxy plate (0,5mm) ;It is strong enough to support the cutting , but filing must be carefully performed (a piece broke during opération but by chance could be repared easely).

GUY - 10-8-2009 at 11:27 PM

Fitting the neck to the neck block .The oud I bought in a oud shop in Paris (It is a second hand instrument) and I am playing for 2 years is assembled on this way .It is not so "traditional"but seems to be steady over the time
Has Dr. Oud or anybody an opinion about this way of assembling.?

Peyman - 10-9-2009 at 04:07 PM

This looks like a good idea. Is it possible to adjust the action (neck angle) after you put everything together?

GUY - 10-11-2009 at 10:24 PM

" Is it possible to adjust the action (neck angle) after you put everything together? "

Not in this case as the neck is covered by the fingerboard.I know that some ouds have a screw at the bottom of the neck for adjusting the angle but it is not what I did .I intend to make a tapered fingerboard (as the angle of the neck is about 5 mm at the nut) to decrease to 2 or 3mm which allows sanding the fingerboard again if some bending appears over the time.

GUY - 10-15-2009 at 08:29 AM

Fingerboard and pegbox assembled .Now waiting for the pegs

Dr. Oud - 10-23-2009 at 09:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by GUY

Fitting the neck to the neck block .....It is not so "traditional"but seems to be steady over the time
Has Dr. Oud or anybody an opinion about this way of assembling.?

I like it! The fingerboard can be removed easily if you use a solid piece and put only a little glue on around the perimeter. Guitars necks have been bolted on for years, so the method is sound. The angle will need adjustment eventually, so I think it's a great adaptation. Nice work, Guy!

GUY - 10-23-2009 at 11:59 PM

Correct Doc. I adjust the neck in order to have a little negative angle .Now a picture with the finger board .When making the beard I made a error (beginner's error).I did not notice that the grain was not in the same direction of the grain of the fingerboard.It gave an optical effect of misalignment. So I put a mahagony inlay in in order to divert the glance.

GUY - 10-24-2009 at 12:05 AM

The bridge is in elmwood .As I found the grain beautiful I did not paint it

GUY - 10-24-2009 at 08:50 AM

This a very cheap device to measure the thickness of the ribs during sanding.So long the defined thickness is not reached the small lamp does not come on.

paulO - 10-24-2009 at 11:03 AM

Hi Guy,

Nice work, I like the un painted bridge -- and the double beard looks cool. Looking fwd. to hearing it !

Cheers..Paul

Yaron Naor - 10-25-2009 at 12:38 AM

Very nice progress and a special thickness checker!

GUY - 10-26-2009 at 08:30 AM

The soundboard edge is cut for receiving the edge tiles.Now I can confirm that the tool for positionning and glueing the braces is efficient .there is no gap in the junction braces /last ribs.

great job man

muthada - 10-27-2009 at 11:34 AM

:cool:

GUY - 10-28-2009 at 01:15 AM

Thanks Muthada

GUY - 10-28-2009 at 09:53 AM

Sounboard edge finished and sanded.Tomorrow Iwill put the strings to check wether everything is correct .I am a little nervous...

paulO - 10-28-2009 at 05:18 PM

Looking good Guy...I look forward to the audio tracks !!

Best Regards..PaulO

GUY - 11-2-2009 at 01:49 AM

Strings in place and first trial playing .Not so bad but according to Dr.advice a little "maturity "is necessary to have the nominal sound.The total weight is 900 gramms and it is already "playable".I will try to put a little video as soon as the strings are stabilizied.
I thank Dr.for his very usefull book and his availabilty to answer to my questions and thanks all the informations given by this forum this project could be performed efficiently.
Nevertheless some improvements will have to be done if I decide to manufacture a second oud

Luttgutt - 11-2-2009 at 04:24 AM

Grate work!

Hope to see a video soon..

GUY - 11-2-2009 at 07:10 AM

Thanks Luttgutt

Yaron Naor - 11-3-2009 at 04:37 AM

Quote: Originally posted by GUY

Strings in place and first trial playing .Not so bad but according to Dr.advice a little "maturity "is necessary to have the nominal sound.The total weight is 900 gramms and it is already "playable".I will try to put a little video as soon as the strings are stabilizied.
I thank Dr.for his very usefull book and his availabilty to answer to my questions and thanks all the informations given by this forum this project could be performed efficiently.
Nevertheless some improvements will have to be done if I decide to manufacture a second oud

WoW, congratulation!
Yaron.

GUY - 11-3-2009 at 07:26 AM

thanks Yaron

GUY - 9-27-2010 at 11:30 PM

Hello everybody.
After 10 months silent I come back to give some informations about the maturing of my oud and about the major faults or defects after practicing .
No problem with the wood behaviour of the back , fingerboard or the top ,excepted a small crack in the beard which appears after 3 months .Strange....I did not expected a crack in this area.
By playing there is an echo of the others strings which are not played in particular the bass strings .I don't know whether there is something the correct or whether I have to live with it .
Do anybody have any idea ?
The strings are a little to high making playing not so "confortable". So I decided to correct this defect on the way I will describe in my next step

GUY - 9-28-2010 at 08:49 AM

Drilling all the string holes at the same height in the bridge is not easy as the drilling device , due to the small diameter ,deviates with the vain .Consequently some strings were higher than the others.
removing the bridge without damaging the sound board was for me an issue and I did not dare to do it.I prefered to rework the top of the bridge with the Dremel tool,down to 4mm high ,adding a groove for a round profile .I had to make a metal piece (stainless steel) to attach the strings .
The configuration is now a glued "floating" bridge .It is not so traditional ,but I am happy of the result .Playing is much more pleasant and there is an improvement of the sound.
For the round profile I tried a brass stick. =>not satisfying.
I got the best result with a piece of bamboo (skewer for kebabs).
I red on this forum that the braces do not work on the same way with a flotting bridge .I will see with the time and take it into account if I make a second oud.