| Pages:
1
2
3 |
dubai244
Oud Junkie
Posts: 490
Registered: 3-8-2004
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi Oudism,
I am really sorry, i didnt see that ..... !!! But i can see it ... !!!
Thanks
|
|
|
Oudism
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-27-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by hamed
Katakofta, the oud played by Jassim is a Grand Concert oud, which is about the same price as a new oud from Yaroub or Ghadban, who are also great
makers. As for the buzz you speak of, ( which i don't think is noteworthy) i find this buzz to be quite common on new ouds, even those from the
forementioned makers.
Hamed |
Mr Hamed..if you get an expensive Oud would you allow to hear that buzz? E.g, You are in a workshop of an Oudmaker, you have 2 ouds in front of you,
you tried both, one of them has this buzz and the other no, which one you have the tendency to purchase?
Do you know from where this buzz is coming from? What cause it? Why it happens?
I am not an expert in Ouds but I guess expensive Ouds should not have this kind of annoying buzz.
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
this is a turkish oud with a low action. They like the strings soo low that you can hear this. on the other hand it makes it soo smooth to play.
the type of sound is different than that of a rounded sounding arabic oud.
|
|
|
Greg
Administrator
Posts: 928
Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Serene
|
|
(As this post may be considered contentious, I am writing it as an interested forum member, not as an administrator or moderator)
What an “interesting” thread this has become.
Five days ago, Katakofka uploaded a sound sample from a cheap oud he had purchased on the internet. He is extremely happy with his purchase, so he
invited other forum members to listen to the sample and comment on the sound of his new oud. Eighty-eight forum members downloaded the sample, but
only two actually made a comment on the sound quality of the oud. One said, “Difficult to give an opinion on the sound of an instrument on a mp3.
But it seems to be a nice iraki sound ud. I think the most important is for you: do you like the sound of your instrument?”
The other says, “I agree with suz, difficult to judge. I guess it's an egyptien floating bridge Oud. Am I right? Sounds good anyway, punchy.”
Based upon these two rather non-committal answers from two of the eighty-eight people that downloaded the sample, Katakofka goes ahead and claims that
his new oud sounds better that a $7,000 oud from one of the finest oud makers in the world.
From there, the thread has degenerated into a platform for criticism of Faruk Türünz’ ouds and pricing. I suspect that most of the critics have
never heard a Türünz oud live, let alone played one. Some critics, by their own admission, have limited knowledge, but they still feel competent to
make statements about whether or not an oud should have buzz.
Most quality ouds with low action have a little buzz when new. Many professional players like a little buzz in their sound, particularly Turkish
players.
Have a listen to the great Yurdal Tokcan in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYSqwzZT_k
Do you think he would accept a sub-standard oud? Do you hear the buzz? It’s there because that’s the way he likes his instruments to sound.
Each of us is entitled to commission the making of an oud to suit our own particular sound preferences. But it seems Jassim’s choice in ouds and his
ability to pay for what he wants, is not acceptable to the critics of this thread.
To get this thread back on topic, I will respond to the original question posed by katakofka, ”I would like to have your opinion regarding a 6month
old Oud.”
Well katakofka, I am very happy that you have purchased an oud that you love and I am also happy that you purchased it for such a low price. But based
upon the sound files that you uploaded to these forums, I would say it sounds very much like an oud that you paid $350 for (including shipping to the
USA).
I have a couple of cheap “learner” ouds from Haluk Eraydin. They cost less than your oud and, to my ear, they sound considerably better.
I also have some high quality instruments and, to my ear, they sound immeasurably better again,
But in the context of this thread, “my ear” is not important. We are talking about your oud and if you love the sound, that’s all that
matters.
But please don’t use your elation at purchasing a cheap instrument that makes you happy, as a platform to set yourself up as an expert critic on
instruments purchased and loved by other forum members.
Greg
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Dear Greg,
I am in no way making critics to Ouds for players in the forum. I was just wondering why these Ouds cost money more that any other Ouds done by other
Oudmakers. Furthermore, I mentioned Faruk's Ouds do have a buzz-like sound, which I don't like. Others like it it's their choices. I was saying that I
prefer the sound of my cheap oud rather than a sound of an expensive Oud having this buzz. That's it, that's all. My intention to attack anyone was
not the main purpose, and if anyone felt attacked, my apoligies to him or to her.
Best
|
|
|
Jassim
Oud Junkie
Posts: 212
Registered: 12-29-2007
Location: Kuwait
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Player
|
|
dear katakofka
im glad that you listen to my playing
sorry im not too good in english
but did you ever have a faruk turunz oud?
or did you ever play on it?
or did you ever see some one play on it live not recording?
and about the buzz
what do you know about the strings freqensy?
and what do you know about the low tuning and the hight?
7000 $ its very cheep for the duble sound bord if you play on it you well pay for it 10000 just to get it
its for profishenal players not for learning
do you know what the profishinal players take in one concert? not less than 3000 $
your oud 350 $ whith the shipment??
if we say shipment take 300 $ so the oud is 50 $???
ok some players dont like that sound or they didnt here ever that sound becose they didnt have a good oud just like faruk turunz sound
so my advise to you you must know what is the good sound first befor you say bad things to good oud makers
sorry all for my way of talking but now i have 4 ouds from faruk turunz and i didnt find any thing that mr katakofka say about it
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Dear Jassim, My apologies to you if you feel attack by what I have written. Nothing personal. I should have used a video not belonging to you as an
example of Faruk's Ouds. I am sorry again. Also, I will neglect the issue of what I know and what I don't know that you posted above.
My main concern is Oud sound quality in this threat.When I find a 7000$ Oud, the first thing I look to is the sound. Buzzy sound for me is
inacceptable for accoustic instrument and I guess others share with me with similar thought. All what I said in this thread is that I prefer the
cheapest Oud (350$ with shipping) having no buzz sound on the most expensive oud. Not necessary I am talking about Faruk's Oud. I guess you agree that
there is many Ouds full of ornementation, expensive, but the sound is bad.
Another thing, I said too that I prefer the sound generated by a floating bridge Oud on any other classical traditional Oud. I guess many players and
oudmakers share with me this preference. I tried to understand why the sound, for me at least, have better accoustic quality, I realized that there is
no clear answer to that issue. So I'll keep digging to understand why.
Modern science dear Jassim is still unable to explain the sound quality of Violin made by Stradivarius with all the technology that exist. I consider
that we know little things about the Oud and we need to make lot of reasearch to understand how to ameliorate the sound.
Best
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Forget something about professionalism:
Dear Jassim, you mentioned that you owe 4 ouds made by faruk. You mentioned too that these ouds are for a professional player. I conclude that you
consider yourself equal to 4 professional players since you owe 4 of Faruk's Ouds. What I have seen from you is couple of videos in which you're
playing taqasim, mainly kord taqassim. Would you please post something else? somehting showing us your real skill as a profesionnal player?
I suggest that you post Czardas on Oud, or Caprice 24 by Paganini. I never heard someone playing these 2 pieces on Oud. Would you be able to do it?
Here are links for Czardas and Paganini's 24 Caprice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OU7Hs-wfLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
If you are willing playing these 2 pieces and you don't have the scores, please feel free to ask, I'll send them to you.
Thanks
Best
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
If you think the oud should have the sound of a guitar and should be played like a guitar... thats your idea.
by the way putting frets on the oud is pretty much the only way someone can get close to it with the intonation.
it exists... its a called a lute and its a different instrument.
this is probably the best in the world at doing what your talking about. his oud has a really low action too 
and his hand is not human...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJw7u-aQ0b4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVJ43PvzTc8
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Samir: do you consider Mehmet Polat a professional player? he's amazing man. I
don't agree with you that his hand is not human, because he's a human  but he has
the skill and he practices it a lot to play paganini on Oud. The bottom line is practicing. Now, do you like the sound generated by his oud? I don't.
Why? because of the low tension and the buzz. Also, I guess he's using 57cm scale Oud. Low tension and small scale Oud helps playing hard pieces such
as paganini's.
"when the muse calls me, what do I care about your pitiful strings?" This was Beethoven's statement to his performers when the most skilfful of them
returned some of his latest quarterts, saying:" This music is not performable sir." In time, and with the dedication of the musicians, a new technique
was found that made the quartets playable, not only by virtuosos but also by bigininers. (Quoted from Marcel Khalife's book, 3oud, 1997)
Any music samir is playable, it needs practice and new way to play it. That's my view.
Best
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
I think it doesnt sound good because its not made for a oud to be played even with this extreemly elevated skills it doesnt sound right so if its not
reacheable by even 1% of the population its safe to say its not the direction towards which to go. Try playing that with any oud... you wont get a
perfect tone.
it will be worse if you try that with longer scale lenght oud.
point is why confine the oud to classical western music...
there is no use of quarter tones.
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by SamirCanada
point is why confine the oud to classical western music...
there is no use of quarter tones. |
Samir: I agree with you, paganini's played by Polat on Oud are not nice pieces since they lake nice, sweet, melody. For technic they're good but I
guess with an 8 strings Oud they would be easier to play.These were written for violin mainly.
The idea is not to make the Oud playing classical music, rather than using some classical pieces that might be lovely on Oud. Pieces that have nice
melody similar to the ones I mentioned previously (eg. Czardaz ). I guess practicing these pieces on Oud will allow you to improve your technical
skill. Furthermore, it allows you to discover new dimension on Oud, trying to find new finger positions, make you create your own way to play, and
having fun when it works !!
I'll join Czardaz played on my cheap 350$ Oud (with shipping high tension, 60 cm
Oud. It has been a while I didn't play it, I need to practice it back it will be much better. But this will give you an idea that it's feasable on Oud
and it's a lovely piece. I put some echo to make it acceptable. I still beleive
anything is feasable on Oud it just need practice.
Best
|
|
|
Oudism
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-27-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Kataaaaaaa...I love it.
Correct me if I am wrong, you prefer using high tension strings to avoid the buzz and you still able to play technically difficult music?
|
|
|
Jassim
Oud Junkie
Posts: 212
Registered: 12-29-2007
Location: Kuwait
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Player
|
|
?
now its about if i can play capress or not??
i play capress befor you see an oud or here about it
i tould you that this oud for profishinal players and they take in one concert not less than 3000 $
im not responseble if you dont know how to think or you just want to see my skils in playing or what do you want realy?
i was thinking that miks oud fourm is for good pepole and musicion not for kids like you
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Oudism
Kataaaaaaa...I love it.
Correct me if I am wrong, you prefer using high tension strings to avoid the buzz and you still able to play technically difficult music?
|
Yes oudism, nothing new dear. Check Saad Mahmood Jawad what a great player. I guess he's using high tension strings on his floating bridge Oud. He's
playing a piece for Muhhyi eddin Targan "if I had wings" very skillfull player.
Jassim, I guess you have a problem understanding english. I suggest that you go "educate" yourself before addressing any post to me. If you have
something constructive to discuss ya hala, if not, no need for bad words w chatayem.
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Sorry Oudism, forget the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwid3qKX39E&feature=related
|
|
|
Jassim
Oud Junkie
Posts: 212
Registered: 12-29-2007
Location: Kuwait
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Player
|
|
اعتقد انك تقدر تقرى عربي
سوري شباب انا لغتي
الانجليزيه ليست جيده
فاريد ان ارد على هذا
الشخص
اعتقد ان عندك مشكله
كبيره في الشخصيه ونصيحتي
ان تراجع اي دكتور نفسي
بالقرب منك
اعتقد ان عزفك سيئ جدا
فارجو ان لاتزعجنا به اول
شي لانه مليئ بالنشاز
وكسر الوزن وكله خرابيط
على قولتنا بالكويت
اذا كانت لديك مشكله انك
لست قادر على شراء عود ( اذا
كان هذا قصدك في بداية
موضوعك ) فهناك مؤسسات
خيريه تستطيع ان تساعدك
اما ان تستخدم هذا
المنتدى لمهاجمة الناس
والتباهي بعزفك السيئ
فرجاءا هناك مواقع اخرى
للاطفال تستطيع ان تبرز
نفسك
لست انا من لا افهم اللغه
الانجليزيه بل انت
لاني قلت لك ان الاعواد
هذي للعازفين المحترفين
ولم اقل اني عازف محترف يا
شاطر
وان العازف المحترف
يتقاضى مبلغ لا يقل عن 3000
دولار بالحفله الواحده
اذا سعر العود بالنسبه له
ليس غالي
اما ان كنت تريد ان اعزفلك
مقطوعات مخصصه للجيتار او
الكمان فاطلب مقطوعات
مخصصه للعود
انصحك بان تحفظ اغاني
نانسي عجرم وبالاخص اغنية
شاطر شاطر لانها مناسبه
لعقليتك الفذه الموسيقيه
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Oudism, check this one too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6QQ-aaz1M4&feature=related
amaazing Mahmoud
|
|
|
Oudism
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-27-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Kata
Man I guess that Mahmoud Jawad is more skillfull than Nasser Shamma. Technically he's amazing, impressive. Do you agree?
Other thing related to this link that you posted above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
This piece cannot be played on Oud, look to the high pitch notes, there is a loooot. I am sure it's going to sound very bad when tried on Oud. But I
agree the melody is so sweet. Anyways.
Cheeeeeeeers
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Oudism...Mahmoud Jawaad 
Related to Paganini's 24 Caprice, the piece is so difficult, even on a guitar. People pass years to be able to perform it on a guitar. It's even a
whole life project. This is the great Paganini dear who wrote music not for his century. Paganini wrote 24 caprices, the best that I like is caprice
24 since it has so many lovely melodies in the variations. There is 11 variations in Caprice 24 with different difficulties every one.
How to play it on Oud, this is the question? Well, there is 2 ways I guess. First, transpose it to avoid the high pitch notes, and practice it on a 6
strings Oud. Alternatively, do it on an 8 strings Oud . I guess I'll get one,
thinking about it.
The best passages, that I love in that piece are the variations between minutes 2:03 to 2:30, 3:40 to 410. These melodies kill me, lovelyyyyy. The
most difficult passage and I have no idea how to do it on Oud is from minute 5:18 to 5:43. Very difficult. But as I said, this is years to a whole
life piece. The key is to practice it and to find time for practicing. Always beleive that everything is feaseable on this great instrument, our
beloved Oud
Best
|
|
|
DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Jeez guys, this thread is going all over the place and seems to be getting a bit on the personal side. Maybe it's time to wind it up, as I think we've
covered all the main issues re oud pricing. For my two bits-worth, sorry to recycle a cliche, but the sound of an oud (or probably any musical
instrument, come to that) is very personal. When people have been playing for a while, they get an ideal of exactly what they want, based on their
playing style, the kind of music they want to play etc. If you have this ideal in your head (and as far as the oud is concerned, I'm not good enough
to) you will do anything to get that sound, up to and including selling your soul to the devil (that fits in with the reference to Paganini, doesn't
it?). The best instrument makers also have a very individual and characteristic sound to their instruments, and I think this is particularly true for
the oud. So you may not like a maker's sound, but if you come across someone who makes what you're looking for, and you have the cash, you're going to
go for it.
I've never heard one of Faruk's ouds live but just through recordings i think they sound absolutely fantastic and very individual - in the right
hands. He's also extremely knowlegeable, as he constantly proves on these forums. We the players, of whatever level, are free to buy or not to buy
expensive ouds. I don't see a moral issue here to get worked up about. Especially in a world where I just payed a £60 monthly mobile phone bill
because the provider neglected to mention that their free international calls didn't extend to texts. Now THAT'S a rip-off.
Jaseem, I'm sure Kata isn't trying to be disrespectful. We've all really enjoyed your sound clips. Please keep them coming.
Peace to all. 
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Dear Dave,
I agree. It really went all over. I'll try to sumarize couple of ideas from this
thread since I am responsible for all the mess
1-This is a personal view that some might share it and some not. The main and principle point in this thread is the following: a good and expensive
oud will not allow you to perform well if you don't practice. The key point is to practice even on a cheap Oud.
2-Why Master Faruk's Oud cost more than other Ouds done by other oudmakers. Beside the fact that Master Faruk is a great oudmaker, I was pointing out
the impact on the market, by saying that increasing the prices of his ouds might influence other oudmakers to do similar.
3-low tension strings on a great Oud. Also here some might share similar view. When putting low tension strings even on a great Oud done by Master
Faruk, you get the risk of having a buzz-like sound. Low tension strings allow the player to perform better but there is the buzz issue that I dislike
since it affects the sound quality of the oud. Saad Mahmood Jawad is probably the greatest Oud performer in the arab world without using low tension
strings. Thus, playing technically difficult pieces on Oud is feasable without using low tension strings.
4-Playing hard, classical piece on a Oud. This is a personal experience that I loved and I wanted to share it with you, by saying that I am enjoying
discovering new dimension on Oud. I'll paste what I've posted above"I guess practicing these pieces on Oud will allow you to improve your technical
skill. Furthermore, it allows you to discover new dimension on Oud, trying to find new finger positions, make you create your own way to play, and
having fun when it works!!". All this on my 350$ (shipping included) oud
I hope this would help to continue constructive discussions
Best
|
|
|
DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Can't argue with any of that Kata. You've obviously thought about this a lot. We all love our own ouds, so happy playing, and please post the Capricio
when you nail it. I for one will be very impressed.
D
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Thanks Dave,
For Paganini's Caprice 24 it's so difficult to play. Many arpeges that require an extra high pitch string. I am waiting for an 8 strings Oud to try
doing it. I'll get the Oud in April, 10 years practicing it, so I'll post it in 2018... lol.
|
|
|
Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
|
|
I'm not sure I understand your fascination with playing Paganinni on the oud. His pieces are technically demanding but I don't believe his vision can
be realized on a fretless plucked instrument. Perhaps some of his guitar compositions would work better?
I don't know, I went to school for music and spent years playing in orchestra and doing recitals. One of the things that drew me to the oud is that
it was so different from what I was practicing every day. It gave me a way to explore a different side of music. I would feel terrible playing
Koussevitszky or Dragonetti on the oud
At any rate, you can play any of the caprice's on a regular oud you'll just have to transpose them to a more friendly pitch center.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
